Maximum Compression - Page 5 - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

Maximum Compression

The Golfing Machine - Basic

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12-14-2010, 11:20 PM
BerntR's Avatar
BerntR BerntR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 981
Originally Posted by Daryl View Post
Kevin,

I agree with your friend on the Champions Tour. The Balls are getting straighter. But why? Will the Ball makers tell us? If they do, then what do you think they'd say?
A wild guess from me:

They manipulate the weight distribution inside the ball so that its MOI increases: That would be a lighter core and more weight towards the surface. For a given spin rate this will give the ball more spin energy when it lands on the green. So that it can handle more turf friction before it stops spinning.

With this increased spin endurance in place the ball doesn't need to land as steep as before to have drop and stop performance on the green.

And when the ball needs less of a spin towards the sky - drop dead air flight they can reduce the air drag when the ball is in the air. And when they reduce the air drag the ball goes straighter and it doesn't spin towards heaven when you play into the wind.

But I'm only guessing here.
__________________
Best regards,

Bernt
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:59 AM
innercityteacher's Avatar
innercityteacher innercityteacher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,900
Bernt, that's really interesting.
Originally Posted by BerntR View Post
A wild guess from me:

They manipulate the weight distribution inside the ball so that its MOI increases: That would be a lighter core and more weight towards the surface. For a given spin rate this will give the ball more spin energy when it lands on the green. So that it can handle more turf friction before it stops spinning.

With this increased spin endurance in place the ball doesn't need to land as steep as before to have drop and stop performance on the green.

And when the ball needs less of a spin towards the sky - drop dead air flight they can reduce the air drag when the ball is in the air. And when they reduce the air drag the ball goes straighter and it doesn't spin towards heaven when you play into the wind.

But I'm only guessing here.
For a Humanities guy like me, it sure makes sense.

Cool!


ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:34 AM
John Graham John Graham is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by brianmontgomery2000 View Post
I'm just starting to investigate the D-plane. I actually have found it quite beneficial to my understanding of what's going on through impact and any resulting ball curvature.

I've also found it seems to explain my predominant draw/hook ball flights from the summer. As I've begun to play the ball back of low point (i.e. up plane) and take a divot, I've hit shots that I would have sworn were right down target line/plane line (one and the same for me aligned neutral or square) with club face square that drew/hooked.

Well, d-plane predicts that (maybe TGM, too, but I didn't understand). So, for me, my understanding has increased and I have a better thought as to how to align (swing plane slightly left of target line) to get a straight ball.

Having said that, I still think TGM provides the best "how to" around! As others have said, if Homer was slightly off on the precise nature of the clubhead/ball collision, I don't think that detracts from the practical results of applying the components that put that clubhead into motion.

So, for me, TGM and more precisely Alignment Golf provide the swing mechanics that I want to learn and apply to improve my ball striking and ultimately reduce my scores. The d-plane has helped me at least better understand what is going on through impact (despite what my prior "knowledge" and feel led me to believe) and understand that I HAD made the swing I intended but got results that would have led me to change things I didn't need to change...I just need to work with slight changes to alignment!

Again, as others have said, I think all of golf benefits from the search for a "unified field" theory of the swing. Facts gathered from Track Man (clubhead path, etc., more so than the "predicted" ball flights which should just be observed) need to be incorporated and explained by TGM if we are to be able to continue to expand our knowledge and understanding of the golf swing and resulting ball flights.

Just my 2 cents on the topic...

This was my experience as well.

As a constant double checker, I came hear to find out if what I learned and was teaching was incorrect.

From what I have learned here, I'm not convinced that this information about the D Plane has been trumped by the geometry of the circle but I am open minded.

As with all things, use what works and don't use what doesn't work.
__________________
Make Everything.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:14 PM
Yoda's Avatar
Yoda Yoda is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,681
D Plane Versus "Circle Geometry" and Hinge Action
Originally Posted by John Graham View Post

As a constant double checker, I came hear to find out if what I learned and was teaching was incorrect.

From what I have learned here, I'm not convinced that this information about the D Plane has been trumped by the geometry of the circle but I am open minded.
John,

In the precision Sketch 2-C-1 #3 (2-N-0 / Geometry of the Circle with Separation deliberately assumed at Low Point), the Swing Path (Arc of Approach), the Clubface and the Line of Compression each face directly down the Plane Line (in this case, also the Target Line). TGM contends that this configuration will produce maximum compression (no "glancing force") and a dead straight shot.

Under these exact conditions, does the D-Plane concept predict another result? If so, what? If not, then in this specific instance, how does D Plane theory "trump" Geometry of the Circle / Hinge Action theory? Or vice versa? In a non-adversarial world, could they be equally predictive?

__________________
Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:25 PM
chipingguru chipingguru is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 112
As D-plane is described, ball would go to the right. Straight right, no slice.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:34 PM
Max Impact Max Impact is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 40
Assuming "sweet spot" contact, and The Flat Left Wrist, or its equivalent, both camps would predict a straight, on-target shot with maximum compression.

But Yoda, since you've "arrived", would angled hinging allow the original contact points between ball and clubface to remain intact throughout the arc of the impact interval?
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:53 PM
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,521
The D Plane assumes that the Ball Rolls on the Clubface. Impact and separation points are always different and D Plane never assumes Max Compression.

All Hinges produce a sustained line of compression, so all hinges give maximum compression. The Angled Hinge tilts the Line of Compression.
__________________
Daryl

Last edited by Daryl : 12-15-2010 at 08:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:22 PM
Max Impact Max Impact is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by Daryl View Post
The D Plane assumes that the Ball Rolls on the Clubface. Impact and separation points are always different and D Plane never assumes Max Compression.

All Hinges produce a sustained line of compression, so all hinges give maximum compression. The Angled Hinge tilts the Line of Compression.
The D Plane is a term for the plane connecting two impact vectors. It is not an analytical model. Hence, The D Plane doesn't "assume" anything.

The book clearly identifies only Horizontal Hinge Action as the ideal application of linear force, producing perfect vector alignments.

And for the record, an arched left wrist, or its equivalent, would produce more compression than The Flat Left Wrist, or its equivalent. This would, of course, "hood" the clubface, which the book suggests to avoid. Although, virtually all great ball-strikers do it.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:22 AM
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,521
Originally Posted by Max Impact View Post
The D Plane is a term for the plane connecting two impact vectors. It is not an analytical model. Hence, The D Plane doesn't "assume" anything.

The book clearly identifies only Horizontal Hinge Action as the ideal application of linear force, producing perfect vector alignments.

And for the record, an arched left wrist, or its equivalent, would produce more compression than The Flat Left Wrist, or its equivalent. This would, of course, "hood" the clubface, which the book suggests to avoid. Although, virtually all great ball-strikers do it.
It's clear that you have NO grasp of "compression", the "line of compression" or "sustaining the line of compression". You said: "And for the record, an arched left wrist, or its equivalent, would produce more compression than The Flat Left Wrist, or its equivalent." Are you delirious?


Furthermore, you don't have a grasp of your own beliefs. Have you read page 80 of your Bible: "The Physics of Golf"? it says:

Quote:
The Ball Slides and Rolls on the Clubface

We shall finally consider the effect of this sliding friction between the ball and the clubface. When the clubhead begins to make contact with the ball, the ball will begin to slide up the clubface, with the force between the ball and the clubface gradually increasing. The resulting frictional force on the ball will gradually give the ball a rolling motion, and when the ball is about to leave the clubface, the ball will be rolling without sliding if there has been enough friction.
Duh? "Slide, then Roll" Duh?
__________________
Daryl

Last edited by Daryl : 12-16-2010 at 12:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:56 AM
Max Impact Max Impact is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by Daryl View Post
It's clear that you have NO grasp of "compression", the "line of compression" or "sustaining the line of compression". You said: "And for the record, an arched left wrist, or its equivalent, would produce more compression than The Flat Left Wrist, or its equivalent." Are you delirious?


Furthermore, you don't have a grasp of your own beliefs. Have you read page 80 of your Bible: "The Physics of Golf"? it says:



Duh? "Slide, then Roll" Duh?
The equivalent of an arched left wrist would deliver less loft to the ball, which would compress the ball more than the equivalent of a flat left wrist, all else the same. That's Physics 101, right there.

Secondly, "The Physics of Golf" is not my "bible". Nice little book, but it doesn't really reveal anything new about the impact collision that wasn't shown in 68's "Search For the Perfect Swing". Jorgensen did coin the term "D Plane", however. Big deal.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:17 AM.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.