Maximum Compression

[innercityteacher]

Now THIS is good.....a willingness to "translate" TGM into other golf instruction languages. TrackMan is not going away. Neither is physical law. TrackMan is not the "evil one", and not the only entity that has done or is doing hard research on the impact collision. In fact, TrackMan has added very little to our basic understanding of the collision to what was presented by the team of internationally-renowned scientists who conducted the research from "Search For The Perfect Swing". What TrackMan has added, among other things, is the geometry of the swing plane through the impact zone, which you would think would be right up any TGM'ers alley.

Anyhoo, there is no TrackMan term for the 3D clubhead path, just the horizontal and vertical directions during impact. I would simply call it the Clubhead Arc.

And I was under the impression that the TGM definition of Target Line is the intended starting direction of the ball flight, not necessarily the straight line from the ball at address to where you want the ball to end up, which is the "traditional" definition.??

Also, it doesn't seem like TGM recognizes the fact that, in a swing of even moderate force, the shaft tip deflects downward, allowing the COG of the clubhead to align with the axis of the shaft at impact. Specifically, you can draw a straight line from the butt section of the shaft to the sweet spot of the clubhead. Why then, is there a distinction between the "shaft plane" and the "sweet spot plane".

Back to Swinger's Hinging....I guess I'm going to have to take Kelley at face value...which is to say, for maximum compression, and to keep the original contact points intact throughout the interval, the horizontal direction that the clubface is pointing, relative to the horizontal direction that the clubhead is traveling, must change in a closing direction during the impact interval. Any idea, in degrees, how much Kelley thought that the clubface closed during the interval? In other words, how open should the clubface be at address compared to fix for horizontal hinging?

I'm not sure who started bashing TrackMan. But it seems like you folks love to take a really nice, interesting discussion of differences and insights and turn it into a witch hunt run by teenage girls. Why throw out all the digs at TGM? Just relax and stick to the points of insight and building understanding. BTW, this is Lynn Blake Golf, not the TGM brand.

Sooner or later, we will discuss every golf-related thing in light of TGM, here, and Raquel Welch, and we will have a damn fine time doing it!

Now Max, why don't you just accept the fact that you don't have to argue with us to be our friend? Would you like some Doritos? A beer? (12 points on Weight Watchers-4 0z, Merde!)

Let's practice, shall we, and I'll begin.

"I think TrackMan sounds like an interesting attempt to creatively describe...."

And you say... "I think TGM agrees with this here using this term but says something different there...."


See, no bloodshed. "Peace On Earth To People of Good Will!"


ICT

[Max Impact]

I really didn't follow any of that, Innercityteacher.
But I did not throw out ONE "dig" at TGM. NOT ONE.
I asked a simple question seeking to clarify an aspect of the book. Unfortunately, simple answers never seem to come back. Often, "answers" are verbatim quoting from the book. But if I was totally clear on what the book says, I wouldn't be asking the question. So I took the liberty of explaining my "language", and asked if someone would be kind enough to explain it to me using terms that I am more familiar with. Look, I teach for a living. I pride myself on being able to explain things in a multitude of different ways. In ways a 6th grader could understand, if necessary. And if I understood the book as well as Homer himself, that's what I'd be doing for others.

[O.B.Left]

Why get angry at a "machine"? Because they will say and do anything to sell it. Lie, cheat and steal. Redefine, omit and misdirect information. Anything to make their machine seem worth the price. They're no better than American and Canadian Politicians. It's all about the money.

I thought you guys in the mid west considered politics to be all about winning?

(Ah , D just between us girls, i didnt exactly write "machine" if you look carefully)

[KevCarter]

I really didn't follow any of that, Innercityteacher.
But I did not throw out ONE "dig" at TGM. NOT ONE.
I asked a simple question seeking to clarify an aspect of the book. Unfortunately, simple answers never seem to come back. Often, "answers" are verbatim quoting from the book. But if I was totally clear on what the book says, I wouldn't be asking the question. So I took the liberty of explaining my "language", and asked if someone would be kind enough to explain it to me using terms that I am more familiar with. Look, I teach for a living. I pride myself on being able to explain things in a multitude of different ways. In ways a 6th grader could understand, if necessary. And if I understood the book as well as Homer himself, that's what I'd be doing for others.

Nobody can explain D-Plane in a manner a 6th grader can understand. Look at all the videos, and all the attempts at it. In a recent interview on GOTHAM blog with Ralph Perez, Manzella said "I can't really explain it." or something to that effect.

Homer did a great job in saying:

"The direction of the ball will always be practically at right angles to the Clubface and square to the leading edge of the Clubface at separation"

That works for me and solved the problem of being taught by the PGA all those years that the ball started on the path...

For myself, I will define practically as the majority. That seems to work with both TrackMan and D-Plane and is explainable to a 2nd grader.

===================================

I understand science has also proven that it is face angle at the point where the ball is fully compressed, not separation.

So what?

I noticed some bonehead posted when he learned that he completely changed his teaching philosophy the next day.

Give me a break.

I'm learning G.O.L.F. I don't give a crap about learning to win a debate. I'm so tired of this silly bickering in an attempt to do just that. If you want to learn about The Golfing Machine and Lynn Blake's ideas on it's application, you are in the right place. If you want to learn D-Plane and "modern science", you probably aren't.

Kevin

[BerntR]

Well said KevCarter,

This summer, while there were a summer golf scool for kids at our club, I was hitting balls next to a couple of kids, around the age of 13. One of them had a pretty good motion but he was slicing the ball excessively (which isn't unusual after 3 days of golf). I asked him if he knew what caused the slice. He didn't. Then I explained to him how side spin worked and how the clubface angle and the club path angle affected where the ball started and ended. "Have you played soccer?". "Yes". "Do you know how to kick a curved ball then?" "Yes." "Well, it's the same thing with a golf club basically. "The ball starts close to where the face points bla-bla-bla ".

After absorbing my 90 seconds D-plane explanation the kid proceeded to hit 8 yard draws straight down the middle. I couldn't believe my eyes

[KevCarter]

Well said KevCarter,

This summer, while there were a summer golf scool for kids at our club, I was hitting balls next to a couple of kids, around the age of 13. One of them had a pretty good motion but he was slicing the ball excessively (which isn't unusual after 3 days of golf). I asked him if he knew what caused the slice. He didn't. Then I explained to him how side spin worked and how the clubface angle and the club path angle affected where the ball started and ended. "Have you played soccer?". "Yes". "Do you know how to kick a curved ball then?" "Yes." "Well, it's the same thing with a golf club basically. "The ball starts close to where the face points bla-bla-bla ".

After absorbing my 90 seconds D-plane explanation the kid proceeded to hit 8 yard draws straight down the middle. I couldn't believe my eyes

Thanks very much BerntR!

I know you have a very scientific mind, and I needed someone like you to verify my simplistic explanation. Now I KNOW I'm on the right track!



I put together booklets full of TGM and other golf stuff I learn around the web. There are some excellent visuals that really help with my explanations, and several you can sort of mix and match based upon who you are working with. We have all seen all of them...

Here is another simple explanation from a friend on the Champions Tour. He is a TGM afficionado along with studying the new science as it relates to his own swing. He says it is so different out there right now because the new balls and clubs don't want to curve, they just want to go straight. Here is what he boiled it down to and it is working great for him in the real world:


D-PLANE & BALL FLIGHT LAWS SIMPLIFIED
• Ball starts closer to face and curves away from path
• Hit the ball on the inside to draw
• Hit the ball in the center for straight ball
• Hit the ball on the outside for fade

He says the 2011 Pro V is even straighter than in 2010! He now trys to go with a straight ball every swing and he used to work it around the course as Hogan and all the great players used to...

BTW, like myself, he LOVES the swing of YODA and when we talk golf swing that is the model we refer to.

Kevin

[innercityteacher]

I really didn't follow any of that, Innercityteacher.
But I did not throw out ONE "dig" at TGM. NOT ONE.
I asked a simple question seeking to clarify an aspect of the book. Unfortunately, simple answers never seem to come back. Often, "answers" are verbatim quoting from the book. But if I was totally clear on what the book says, I wouldn't be asking the question. So I took the liberty of explaining my "language", and asked if someone would be kind enough to explain it to me using terms that I am more familiar with. Look, I teach for a living. I pride myself on being able to explain things in a multitude of different ways. In ways a 6th grader could understand, if necessary. And if I understood the book as well as Homer himself, that's what I'd be doing for others.

Raquel Welch understands the "D-Plane " concept. Think about it.

When we explain stuff to people let's be friendly and look at including other points of view. That's it. If I misunderstood you, than I apologize. I feel an emotional attachment to something that has lowered my hcp. to 10.1 from 21. When you say something like 'I'm surprised TGM doesn't say this or that...." it feels like you are taking a shot at something that is pretty damn effective when all you need to do is to say something like "how is that explained in terms of TGM?"

I think the Raquel Welch line was one of my funnier lines.



ICT

[Daryl]

............He says the 2011 Pro V is even straighter than in 2010! He now trys to go with a straight ball every swing and he used to work it around the course as Hogan and all the great players used to...Kevin

Kevin, what do you think of that? If you don't think anything of it, then that's ok too.

Do you think Ball Makers changed the way the Ball "rolls-up" the Clubface or does it make more sense to consider a change in the resiliency of the Ball Core?

[KevCarter]

Kevin, what do you think of that? If you don't think anything of it, then that's ok too.

Do you think Ball Makers changed the way the Ball "rolls-up" the Clubface or does it make more sense to consider a change in the resiliency of the Ball Core?

I don't know what to make of it Daryl. I've played a total of 2 rounds the past 2 years. Hopefully my body will be healthier this year and I'll be able to test some of this for myself. For now I just have to trust what I learn from you and the others...

I trust what this gentleman tells me as he is experiencing it daily with both his own and his students (Tour Players) swings. He's like me, not a very scientific mind, but understands the geometry and the fact that people get different feels from proper mechanics.

As I said earlier, I'm interested in the real world application of Homer Kelley's work, and that is why I am here to learn from the best. I believe that advances in equipment may change some of Mr. Kelley's ideas as far as debating his EXACT words, but it still holds up in the real world of improving golfers...

Next someone asks what changes to try to trip me up. As I posted a couple of posts ago, direction is determined by the clubface at maximum compression rather than separation. If that is true, it invalidates a couple of words, but DOES NOT change the way we teach or perform. IMHO

What else changes? I don't know.

Kevin

[Daryl]

Kevin,

I agree with your friend on the Champions Tour. The Balls are getting straighter. But why? Will the Ball makers tell us? If they do, then what do you think they'd say?