Now THIS is good.....a willingness to "translate" TGM into other golf instruction languages. TrackMan is not going away. Neither is physical law. TrackMan is not the "evil one", and not the only entity that has done or is doing hard research on the impact collision. In fact, TrackMan has added very little to our basic understanding of the collision to what was presented by the team of internationally-renowned scientists who conducted the research from "Search For The Perfect Swing". What TrackMan has added, among other things, is the geometry of the swing plane through the impact zone, which you would think would be right up any TGM'ers alley.
Anyhoo, there is no TrackMan term for the 3D clubhead path, just the horizontal and vertical directions during impact. I would simply call it the Clubhead Arc.
And I was under the impression that the TGM definition of Target Line is the intended starting direction of the ball flight, not necessarily the straight line from the ball at address to where you want the ball to end up, which is the "traditional" definition.??
Also, it doesn't seem like TGM recognizes the fact that, in a swing of even moderate force, the shaft tip deflects downward, allowing the COG of the clubhead to align with the axis of the shaft at impact. Specifically, you can draw a straight line from the butt section of the shaft to the sweet spot of the clubhead. Why then, is there a distinction between the "shaft plane" and the "sweet spot plane".
Back to Swinger's Hinging....I guess I'm going to have to take Kelley at face value...which is to say, for maximum compression, and to keep the original contact points intact throughout the interval, the horizontal direction that the clubface is pointing, relative to the horizontal direction that the clubhead is traveling, must change in a closing direction during the impact interval. Any idea, in degrees, how much Kelley thought that the clubface closed during the interval? In other words, how open should the clubface be at address compared to fix for horizontal hinging?
The Shaft Tip is not directed Downward. The Hosel is Directed Upward. We swing the COG of the Clubhead and the COG of the Clubhead stays on Orbit. In other words, the shaft is complying with the pull of centrifugal force on the center of gravity of the clubhead.
Hinging doesn't close the face, the pivot closes the face. Hinging determines which of the 3 associated Planes the Clubface is aligned with while rotating through the Impact Interval.
Just a note that the folks at TrackMan have been trying to simplify the language and have changed a couple of definitions to make it easier to discuss without learning new terminology.
Swing plane (formerly vertical swing plane): a measure of how
vertical the swing is, where a high value represents a very up and
down (steep) swing plane and a low value a relatively flat (to the
ground) arc. More technically, it is the angle made between the
ground and the plane of club head trajectory
at the bottom of the swing arc.
Swing direction (formerly horizontal swing plane): the orientation
of the swing arc, relative to the target line, where positive
means to the right, negative means to the left. More technically, it
is the horizontal direction the club head is traveling in at the bottom
of the swing arc
Launch direction (formerly horizontal launch angle): the initial
direction of the ball relative to target line. Positive means to the
right, negative means to the left
Hopefully this will help in our understanding as the new terms are very much in line with our studies IMHO.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Also, it doesn't seem like TGM recognizes the fact that, in a swing of even moderate force, the shaft tip deflects downward, allowing the COG of the clubhead to align with the axis of the shaft at impact. Specifically, you can draw a straight line from the butt section of the shaft to the sweet spot of the clubhead. Why then, is there a distinction between the "shaft plane" and the "sweet spot plane".
Thanks for the kind words.
Mr Kelley did in fact describe this toe drop, COG phenomenon you mention. Its even seen in photos of a demonstration he conducted available on this site.
What the heck could anyone have against Trackman? What sort of a person gets mad at a Machine.
Why get angry at a "machine"? Because they will say and do anything to sell it. Lie, cheat and steal. Redefine, omit and misdirect information. Anything to make their machine seem worth the price. They're no better than American and Canadian Politicians. It's all about the money.
Why get angry at a "machine"? Because they will say and do anything to sell it. Lie, cheat and steal. Redefine, omit and misdirect information. Anything to make their machine seem worth the price. They're no better than American and Canadian Politicians. It's all about the money.
I thought you guys in the mid west considered politics to be all about winning?
(Ah , D just between us girls, i didnt exactly write "machine" if you look carefully)
Now THIS is good.....a willingness to "translate" TGM into other golf instruction languages. TrackMan is not going away. Neither is physical law. TrackMan is not the "evil one", and not the only entity that has done or is doing hard research on the impact collision. In fact, TrackMan has added very little to our basic understanding of the collision to what was presented by the team of internationally-renowned scientists who conducted the research from "Search For The Perfect Swing". What TrackMan has added, among other things, is the geometry of the swing plane through the impact zone, which you would think would be right up any TGM'ers alley.
Anyhoo, there is no TrackMan term for the 3D clubhead path, just the horizontal and vertical directions during impact. I would simply call it the Clubhead Arc.
And I was under the impression that the TGM definition of Target Line is the intended starting direction of the ball flight, not necessarily the straight line from the ball at address to where you want the ball to end up, which is the "traditional" definition.??
Also, it doesn't seem like TGM recognizes the fact that, in a swing of even moderate force, the shaft tip deflects downward, allowing the COG of the clubhead to align with the axis of the shaft at impact. Specifically, you can draw a straight line from the butt section of the shaft to the sweet spot of the clubhead. Why then, is there a distinction between the "shaft plane" and the "sweet spot plane".
Back to Swinger's Hinging....I guess I'm going to have to take Kelley at face value...which is to say, for maximum compression, and to keep the original contact points intact throughout the interval, the horizontal direction that the clubface is pointing, relative to the horizontal direction that the clubhead is traveling, must change in a closing direction during the impact interval. Any idea, in degrees, how much Kelley thought that the clubface closed during the interval? In other words, how open should the clubface be at address compared to fix for horizontal hinging?
I'm not sure who started bashing TrackMan. But it seems like you folks love to take a really nice, interesting discussion of differences and insights and turn it into a witch hunt run by teenage girls. Why throw out all the digs at TGM? Just relax and stick to the points of insight and building understanding. BTW, this is Lynn Blake Golf, not the TGM brand.
Sooner or later, we will discuss every golf-related thing in light of TGM, here, and Raquel Welch, and we will have a damn fine time doing it!
Now Max, why don't you just accept the fact that you don't have to argue with us to be our friend? Would you like some Doritos? A beer? (12 points on Weight Watchers-4 0z, Merde!)
Let's practice, shall we, and I'll begin.
"I think TrackMan sounds like an interesting attempt to creatively describe...."
And you say... "I think TGM agrees with this here using this term but says something different there...."
See, no bloodshed. "Peace On Earth To People of Good Will!"
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 12-14-2010 at 12:05 AM.
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