"Point of Origin" in 10-20 refers to the originating point of the Action that Triggers the Release. In other words, the locushttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/locus of the Triggering Action. Is that locus the Hands (10-20-A)? The Right Arm (10-20-B)? The Right Shoulder (10-20-C)? The Left Wrist (10-20-E)? Or, for Automatic applications, the end of the Delivery Path (usually in Combination with either the Right Arm or Left Wrist / 10-20-D)? Or in some other Combination (11-20 lists some, but certainly not all)?
The quote emphatically does NOT apply to the three Release Points (Sweep, Random and Snap) or Release Types (Full Sweep, Random Sweep, Snap and Flip). While the Variations of the Trigger (Component #20) and the Release (Component #24) are ordered to reflect their parallel nature, the Release Points and Types are specific to the Release Component (11-24).
I continue to post in this thread because I believe there is value in refuting -- by differentiating with the facts and appropriate references -- the misinformation attributed to Tom Tomasello by his most ardent proponent.
And I'm sure I won't be the last ardent proponent.
"Point of Origin" in 10-20 refers to the originating point of the Action that Triggers the Release. In other words, the locushttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/locus of the Triggering Action. Is that locus the Hands (10-20-A)? The Right Arm (10-20-B)? The Right Shoulder (10-20-C)? The Left Wrist (10-20-E)? Or, for Automatic applications, the end of the Delivery Path (usually in Combination with either the Right Arm or Left Wrist / 10-20-D)? Or in some other Combination (11-20 lists some, but certainly not all)?
The quote emphatically does NOT apply to the three Release Points (Sweep, Random and Snap) or Release Types (Full Sweep, Random Sweep, Snap and Flip). While the Variations of the Trigger (Component #20) and the Release (Component #24) are ordered to reflect their parallel nature, the Release Points and Types are specific to the Release Component (11-24).
I continue to post in this thread because I believe there is value in refuting -- by differentiating with the facts and appropriate references -- the misinformation attributed to Tom Tomasello by his most ardent proponent.
For Swinging...."Centrifugual Force Uncocks BOTH the Left Wrist and the Right Elbow." Reference 7-1. Even after telling me to start the club down with the right arm Tom Tomasello reference that sentence in 7-1.
As Tommy said...."the learning is never ending." GI 1991.
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 12-01-2008 at 08:58 PM.
I'll let the members of this forum be the judge. Oh, btw, a number of the top University Golf Coachs studied with Tommy at his Myrtle Beach studio....even sent complementry notes after their instruction. Go figure....
DG wrote-: "Even before Tommy shook Homer's hand....he had 48 hours worth of phone conversations on audio tape. Wow....must have been a wealth of knowledge in those 48 hours let alone the 8 12 hour days that he spent with Homer in his master class that he also caught on audio tape. I really don't know how Tommy could've have gone wrong. And even Golf Illustrated interviewed him...something good must have been happening in those Swinging, Hitting and Advanced schools. I'll let the members of this forum be the judge. Oh, btw, a number of the top University Golf Coachs studied with Tommy at his Myrtle Beach studio....even sent complementry notes after their instruction. Go figure...."
This is a totally irrational argument. One's ability to understand TGM is not directly proportional to the amount of time a TGM enthusiast spent with HK, or the number of hours he personally spent thinking about TGM teachings. There is a confounding variable in this simplistic cause-and-effect equation - the intellect of the TGM enthusiast and his mental ability to correctly digest HK's ideas. When DG states that he doesn't know "how Tommy could have gone wrong", it only reflects his personal bias and his inability to mentally entertain alternative perspectives. I would greatly respect DG's opinions if he could describe TT's ideas using TGM terminology and TGM mechanics/biomechanics. However, he never attempts to describe TT's ideas - he simply states that the "evidence" is clearly evident in TT's articles/videos/audio tapes. That's like the church scientists of the Vatican who clearly believed that the earth was flat (because of their biblical teachings) and who didn't think that alternative perspectives (Galileo's belief that the earth was round) could possibly be correct.
Yoda - In defense of DG's position, I cannot understand how you can infer that TT's "right arm throw" action should start with a 8-7 start down move. I can understand a pivot-driven swing starting with a 8-7 start down move and that the right arm throw is only used to trigger the release of the power package. However, TT specifically states that one must start the downswing with a "right arm throw action" that throws the clubshaft down-and-out onto the plane before the body moves. TT also specifically states that one should get the "feeling" of getting the clubhead past the left thigh before the body moves. Of course, that's not possible, but I cannot understand TT's intent - which is to make the body reactive to the throw, and that it should respond secondarily to the throw action - rather than preceding the throw action (ala Ben Hogan).
First, there is no TGM defense of DG's position.
Second, since you provided no quote or reference regarding my "inference", I can only presume that you are referring to my Post #120 above. That being the case, I clearly stated that the Release Trigger is employed at -- gasp! -- the Release (8-9) and not at Start Down (8-7).
Third, as far as Tom Tomasello and what he taught is concerned, I could care less, except that I am growing weary of correcting misconceptions either taught by him or promoted as being taught by him.
DG wrote-: "Even before Tommy shook Homer's hand....he had 48 hours worth of phone conversations on audio tape. Wow....must have been a wealth of knowledge in those 48 hours let alone the 8 12 hour days that he spent with Homer in his master class that he also caught on audio tape. I really don't know how Tommy could've have gone wrong. And even Golf Illustrated interviewed him...something good must have been happening in those Swinging, Hitting and Advanced schools. I'll let the members of this forum be the judge. Oh, btw, a number of the top University Golf Coachs studied with Tommy at his Myrtle Beach studio....even sent complementry notes after their instruction. Go figure...."
This is a totally irrational argument. One's ability to understand TGM is not directly proportional to the amount of time a TGM enthusiast spent with HK, or the number of hours he personally spent thinking about TGM teachings. There is a confounding variable in this simplistic cause-and-effect equation - the intellect of the TGM enthusiast and his mental ability to correctly digest HK's ideas. When DG states that he doesn't know "how Tommy could have gone wrong", it only reflects his personal bias and his inability to mentally entertain alternative perspectives. I would greatly respect DG's opinions if he could describe TT's ideas using TGM terminology and TGM mechanics/biomechanics. However, he never attempts to describe TT's ideas - he simply states that the "evidence" is clearly evident in TT's articles/videos/audio tapes. That's like the church scientists of the Vatican who clearly believed that the earth was flat (because of their biblical teachings) and who didn't think that alternative perspectives (Galileo's belief that the earth was round) could possibly be correct.
Jeff.
Jeff,
Review the Letter Series and the Australian Series- especially Chapter 2 and Chapter 5 - it's all there!!! You need to watch it at least 100 times before you understand the details. If you want the article from Golf Illustrated - PM me and I'll send it to you - Go Tommy YEE HAW!!!
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
Jeff,
Review the Letter Series and the Australian Series- especially Chapter 2 and Chapter 5 - it's all there!!! You need to watch it at least 100 times before you understand the details. If you want the article from Golf Illustrated - PM me and I'll send it to you - Go Tommy YEE HAW!!!
For the four the years that I have been reading your posts....I've learned nothing. Zippo...
It's interesting....one minute you're saying how much you appreciate my input on this site and now you're giving me a hard time because of new information about swinging from Tommy that goes against your instruction.....talk about lack of crediblity....in my book it's the worst kind.
For the four the years that I have been reading your posts....I've learned nothing. Zippo...
DG
Dave,
You've summarized the whole problem and what everyone has been trying to tell you. Glad you finally figured it out. Don't worry too much about it - you had the same problem with Tommy. PM me when you get your next degree.
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
I have seriously tried to be open-mided about DG's point of view and I have seriously tried to understand TT"s "right arm throw" action, but my understanding is handicapped by a lack of a detailed TGM-based description that is logically coherent and logically consistent.
Yoda
There is one part of TT's "right arm throw" action that I believe is practically possible - the idea of throwing the clubshaft down-and-out without a conscious pivot-driven move preceding the throw action. If it is practically possible - then I would like to understand the process better using TGM terminology and TGM mechanics/biomechanics. In a Ben Hogan style swing, the downswing action is pivot-driven, which means that the left arm moves secondary to the release of PA#4 (left arm is blasted into orbit when the pivot subsides). However, TT obviously throws the left arm downplane without using a pivot-driven release of PA#4 to move the left arm downplane. I am not implying that it's a desirable method of moving the left arm in the downswing. I merely acknowledge the fact that it is a possible method of executing a left arm swinging action and I am trying to understand it from a TGM perspective. Peter Croker also teaches a similar swing style, and I would like to better understand its strengths/weaknesses from a TGM perspective.
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