Question about plane

[12 piece bucket]

The Golfing Machine supports "my way" procedures but not "the way" theory.

Here's Mike O's feedback - You're going to see shifts- you're not going to get better by trying to stay on one plane- probably going to get worse. You want to maintain the clubshaft/sweetspot relationship to the plane line- understand the shifts but don't view them as inferior procedures. Not that you asked but the mechanical issues with your impact photo are - the right forearm is too high, inadequate hip slide/rotation (hips are "square"), the right foot is "flat". That's a result of other issues- loss of lag, or other issues- so I wouldn't work directly on the feel of the forearm location, nor the hip or footwork- they are affects of something else. However, when you find that something else- you'll see a different elbow, hip, foot "look" at impact. Anyway - food for thought. The first "issue" I would look at is your mat - get something where you can hit a more descending blow on a "fluffier" lie- otherwise you could be creating a swing that throws the clubhead in order to prevent you from hurting your wrists on the mat at impact.

Regardless of whether you are a plus 2 or a 15 handicap or somewhere in-between- that's what I see.

Nice . . . hobby . . . quality what? Rope turds? Meth? Tatertots?

OK stankbutt . . . .I take issue with it's OK to shift the plane angle if you "as long as any shifts still allow the sweetspot/clubhead feel to maintain it's relationship to the plane line." We had this discussion befo . . . if you raise the handle up . . the face angle magnet dealie (face vector) is out to the right . . . if you lower it down it's to the left . . . You can trace a straight plane line and still hit the ball crooked as if somebody hired you to run a bank. #3 disruption = potential direction issue regardless if you can trace a line better'n you trace a doctor's signature on prescriptions for Ox or flea and tick deterant.

I would certainly pay attention to any advice Mikey has on wrist hurting . . . or hair removal from palms.

[Daryl]

What’s up with this East Coast Mumbo-jumbo Witch-doctor analysis?


Grasp the grip of the club and hurdle it down the fairway. Notice that the Grip and Clubhead revolve end over end in the same plane. The club doesn’t wobble down the fairway. That's the principle behind the Plane and Clubshaft Control. Each Plane Shift can introduce a wobble. The Club wants to stay on Plane. The Clubshaft Likes the Plane. The Clubshaft is the Plane.

Ndwolfe81 is double shifting but the Golfclub doesn’t care which plane angle you choose to swing. It’s more efficient if your Clubshaft can stay on the same plane throughout the stroke. His Clubshaft and Right Forearm are on-plane at Impact. The Elbow Plane.

Ndwolfe81 has built-in double-shift. He doesn’t have a Rigid Power Package to maintain a no-shift during the Backstroke or Downstroke.

Straightening his right elbow during the Downstroke causes the shift from the Turned Shoulder Plane back to the Elbow Plane the same as over-bending the Right Elbow at the Top causes the Upward Shift. Don't believe me? Simply swing the Club without your Right Hand on the Club. You won't Shift Planes. Swing the Club without Straightening your Right Elbow during the Downswing and you won't Shift Planes. Therefore, keep a rigid Power Package.


The Principle behind the On-Plane Right Forearm is that it can direct and support the Clubshaft during release through Impact to Both Arms Straight. It’s the easiest way to maintain Clubshaft Control throughout the Stroke. The Right Arm Flying Wedge.

The Right Shoulder can support the Right Forearm up until Release. Then, the Power Package continues On-Plane while it unfolds (straightening the Right Elbow) and releases the Accumulators.

Note that any plane shift is only possible if the #3 or #2 pressure Point is maintaining a relationship to the Pivot. If the #2 or 3 Pressure Point maintains a relationship to the Plane Line (Tracing), then no shift would occur and the Right Elbow would not Straighten during the Downstroke until Release.

[Mike O]

Nice . . . hobby . . . quality what? Rope turds? Meth? Tatertots?

OK stankbutt . . . .I take issue with it's OK to shift the plane angle if you "as long as any shifts still allow the sweetspot/clubhead feel to maintain it's relationship to the plane line." We had this discussion befo . . . if you raise the handle up . . the face angle magnet dealie (face vector) is out to the right . . . if you lower it down it's to the left . . . You can trace a straight plane line and still hit the ball crooked as if somebody hired you to run a bank. #3 disruption = potential direction issue regardless if you can trace a line better'n you trace a doctor's signature on prescriptions for Ox or flea and tick deterant.

I would certainly pay attention to any advice Mikey has on wrist hurting . . . or hair removal from palms.

Hither Hand Wither Slither- Aloha- What?

Yes, you should set-up at the appropriate plane angle that you'll be coming back into at impact- but during full swings you'll see shifting planes during the swing.

Please follow your wife's, doctor's and my advice and get back on the medication - we're begging!

[O.B.Left]

Gentlemen, fellow Stankbutts , I sense ndwolfe's question remains unanswered.

Namely, given the advice to take the right shoulder down plane or at the ball in Start Down, should the right shoulder (shaft , right foremarm) be on the inclined plane at impact? Any amount of #3 angle or right arm bend would make this impossible no? What gives?

[Loren]

Can you set up at impact fix with everything on plane? Yes.
There's the answer.
The left arm is not on plane (#3 accum) by definition.
The right forearm is, with a little bend left in the elbow. (Impact is to occur before maximum extension.)
The definition of the Flying Wedges.

If the right shoulder does not move down on plane, it must move somewhere else, which requires compensation.
ndwolfe is not moving the right shoulder down the plane angle. It could be the right hip is in the way.

[O.B.Left]

Can you set up at impact fix with everything on plane? Yes.
There's the answer.
The left arm is not on plane (#3 accum) by definition.
The right forearm is, with a little bend left in the elbow. (Impact is to occur before maximum extension.)
The definition of the Flying Wedges.

If the right shoulder does not move down on plane, it must move somewhere else, which requires compensation.
ndwolfe is not moving the right shoulder down the plane angle. It could be the right hip is in the way.

Thanks Loren. I hate to belabour the point, but when you say "everything" I dont think you are including the right shoulder to which ndwolfe alludes. You are of course, correct in that the right shoulder should not be on the inclined plane at Fix. In Startdown perhaps, if you so choose. Its seems as if the Right Forearm and the Right Shoulder cant travel the inclined plane together if there is any elbow bend. They may take turns on it but not together.

You could I suppose get the right shoulder and the RFFW on the inclined plane at Fix but only with a perfectly straight right arm. A death move or should I say death alignment, unless you are putting maybe.

[12 piece bucket]

Gentlemen, fellow Stankbutts , I sense ndwolfe's question remains unanswered.

Namely, given the advice to take the right shoulder down plane or at the ball in Start Down, should the right shoulder (shaft , right foremarm) be on the inclined plane at impact? Any amount of #3 angle or right arm bend would make this impossible no? What gives?

I think I answered it . . . to my satisfaction anyhow . . . ball knows if the club is on plane from impact to separation . . don't know squat about your shoulder or forearm . . .

[O.B.Left]

I think I answered it . . . to my satisfaction anyhow . . . ball knows if the club is on plane from impact to separation . . don't know squat about your shoulder or forearm . . .

Thanks Stanker

I'm kind of surprised you're saying the ball wouldnt know the mechanical advantage or structure of the right forearm being on plane. More mass, more structure, more leverage, etc. Ill throw you a mulligan on that one if you want. I dont think you meant that the way im reading it, anyways.

If the right shoulder moves down the TSP in Startdown but it aint on the TSP at Impact........... has it shifted its plane of motion, (again)? Im not saying that it should be on the TSP at impact, but it is an interesting question from ndwolfe.

[Daryl]

Gentlemen, fellow Stankbutts , I sense ndwolfe's question remains unanswered.

Namely, given the advice to take the right shoulder down plane or at the ball in Start Down, should the right shoulder (shaft , right foremarm) be on the inclined plane at impact? Any amount of #3 angle or right arm bend would make this impossible no? What gives?

I answered the question.

Unfortunately, some of us (not Loren) are confused about the differences between Plane Angle, Plane Reference Points, Clubshaft Control, etc. I won't name anyone.

[Mike O]

Gentlemen, fellow Stankbutts , I sense ndwolfe's question remains unanswered.

Namely, given the advice to take the right shoulder down plane or at the ball in Start Down, should the right shoulder (shaft , right foremarm) be on the inclined plane at impact? Any amount of #3 angle or right arm bend would make this impossible no? What gives?

Unless you do something really strange duruing a full swing- the right shoulder would be on plane during start down but obviously at release and impact it is no where near the plane.