I know Homer's only referring to the True Swinger in my above quote from 7-2. Should have made that more clear in my question. I am actually thinking about the True Swinger, only. Should he use Grip rotation to get that degree of openness required by the selected Hinge Action and Club length (per 2-J-1)? Isn't that somewhat mixing Grip rotation with Plane Line rotation?
By definition the True Swinger uses , no I cant say uses .... sees cf ALONE square the club face. ie he has no control over the club face. Grip Rotation is therefor not available to him.
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Or should he get the required amount of open Clubface by placing the ball further back? (But with Horizontal Hinging, which per 2-J-1 requires a more open Clubface for the longer clubs, that would mean playing the ball from further back with the longer clubs, which seems counterintuitive, no?)
Each club given built in hook face has its own unique straight away ball position. This is found through trial and error and takes into account the degree of clubface openness required for straight away initial ball flight. IMO.
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Can a player who uses Plane Line rotation to produce fades and draws use Grip rotation to get the Impact alignments prescribed by 2-J-1 for the selected Hinge Action?
Yes. But only a manipulated Hands Swinger or Hitter would be able to do this.
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And can a Hands Manipulated Swinger still use Plane Line Rotation to play fades and draws?
Yes absolutely.
Short version maybe this will be more clear: When you read 7-2 you have to understand that regardless of whether you are a True Swinger or Manipulated hands swinger or hitter the ball flight laws are the same. Divergence between clubhead path and club face angle creates curved flight . The true swinger can manipulate the path only . The manipualted hands swinger or hitter can manipulate the path and / or the face. Said another way in Homer speak , the manipulated Hands Swinger can manipulate the club HEAD and the club FACE. The True Swinger has no manual control over the club FACE. He sees the clubface come back to a ball played aft in the stance in a more open condition than does the manipulated hands swinger or hitter who employed Grip Rotation.
So the ball reaction for balls played back in the stance are different yes (given the implication to face angle inherent in Homers definitions of true vs manipulated swinging ) ..... but the ball flight laws are universal . No one can over ride the physics in play. Path vs Face equals divergence etc.
By definition the True Swinger uses , no I cant say uses .... sees cf ALONE square the club face. ie he has no control over the club face. Grip Rotation is therefor not available to him.
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If I were to say cf squares the flat left hand
not the clubface what would U answer?
If I were to say cf squares the flat left hand
not the clubface what would U answer?
HB
Me personally or Homer?
I know you have issues with cf /clubface . Fine by me. I have some too frankly. Should we address the theoretical, intellectual here or just try to understand what the heck Homer was talking about in 7-2?
Maybe your points are best left for a discussion in the lab. YOu know, get the white coats on.
To answer your question. Homer said in the audio tapes the true swingers clubface stayed aligned, square to his left hand , his primary lever throughout the swing. He thought that Horizontal was a natural by product of true swinging . But he attributed it to cfs effect on the clubface not the left hand.
I know you have issues with cf /clubface . Fine by me. I have some too frankly. Should we address the theoretical, intellectual here or just try to understand what the heck Homer was talking about in 7-2?
Maybe your points are best left for a discussion in the lab. YOu know, get the white coats on.
To answer your question. Homer said in the audio tapes the true swingers clubface stayed aligned, square to his left hand , his primary lever throughout the swing. He thought that Horizontal was a natural by product of true swinging . But he attributed it to cfs effect on the clubface not the left hand.
I know you have issues with cf /clubface . Fine by me. I have some too frankly. Should we address the theoretical, intellectual here or just try to understand what the heck Homer was talking about in 7-2?
Maybe your points are best left for a discussion in the lab. YOu know, get the white coats on.
To answer your question. Homer said in the audio tapes the true swingers clubface stayed aligned, square to his left hand , his primary lever throughout the swing. He thought that Horizontal was a natural by product of true swinging . But he attributed it to cfs effect on the clubface not the left hand.
The book only states:
Quote:
With true Throw-Out Action (no manual Clubface manipulation), Centrifugal Force automatically aligns the Clubshaft and Clubface for Horizontal Hinging (10-10-D) regardless of the Grip being used. And Ball Position (2-N) for straight-away flight must agree with the amount of “Hookface” designed into the Club, and is, therefore, unalterable except with manual override action or adjustment of the Plane Line.
Why do I get the feeling that y'all think CF Aligns the Clubface for Impact?
Why do I get the feeling that y'all think CF Aligns the Clubface for Impact?
Because there are 2 ways to read "IT" but only one is correct.
A- there is "something" in the club design that allows cf to square the face- Ya know, the old Scottish clubhead that looks like a foot?- seen that explanation. That "MEDICUS" wire club (ughh).
B.- CF brings the clubface as part of a properly aligned machine into impact - but the machine alignment is "design" brought to impact by cf.
I am with B and those who try and make A work have a bent plane line. PERIOD.
It is unfortunate but I bet the above A/B thing is about 80-10-10 in the order of A-B-CONFUSED and that is too bad.
Just my point of view.
PS. O.B., The lab will just hide the subject in a corner. We are in ADVANCED so what should be a BASIC of TGM fits here, I think, By the way- reread 10-10-D. Does that create any problems for U? I
HB
Last edited by HungryBear : 01-16-2013 at 09:29 AM.
Pardon me, but I don't see how this quote can have more than one interpretation. It clearly states "aligns the Clubshaft and Clubface for Horizontal Hinging". If he believed that CF Aligns the Face for Impact, I think he would have said so.
If you want another way to put it, he's saying that cf aligns for "Closing Only" of the Clubshaft and Clubface.
Pardon me, but I don't see how this quote can have more than one interpretation. It clearly states "aligns the Clubshaft and Clubface for Horizontal Hinging". If he believed that CF Aligns the Face for Impact, I think he would have said so.
If you want another way to put it, he's saying that cf aligns for "Closing Only" of the Clubshaft and Clubface.
Guess we do belong in the lab. The idea that CF has anything to do with clubface is in the 80%. The clubface is the "back of the hand" period. CF tries to align the COG of the club but on the selected hinge alignment is mechanical. As in "my "B" above.
I don't realy care what others do or think- It is their game - but I am comfortable with the physics.
Hybrid Mode
