Thanks for your thoughtful replies. They are very helpful.
I understand that Delayed Hip Action with preturned Hips will assure Clearing of the Right Hip. But preturning the Hips is not mandatory for Delayed Hip Action, is it? Homer says "Turn the Hips a predetermined amount - or none at all - and then semi-lock them at that point before starting back with either the Shoulders or the Club." (Bold by me.)
I took the quote in my first post above to mean that Delayed Hip Action even without preturned Hips would assure Clearing of the Right Hip, whereas Standard Hip Action would not. Maybe that was not intended.
I understand that Delayed Hip Action with preturned Hips will assure Clearing of the Right Hip. But preturning the Hips is not mandatory for Delayed Hip Action, is it? Homer says "Turn the Hips a predetermined amount - or none at all - and then semi-lock them at that point before starting back with either the Shoulders or the Club." (Bold by me.)
I took the quote in my first post above to mean that Delayed Hip Action even without preturned Hips would assure Clearing of the Right Hip, whereas Standard Hip Action would not. Maybe that was not intended.
No, Par71, that most certainly was not the intent. In fact, a "sticky" right hip has produced probably more horrendous golf shots under tournament pressure than any other error. Ask Greg Norman, whose closet would have at least one or two green jackets if that were not the case coming down the stretch.
The "or none at all" you bolded refers to those Strokes where no Hip Turn -- pre-cleared or otherwise -- is necessary, e.g., a ten-foot putt.
Master Machinist Eddie Cox....Preturn the right hip until the "line" from the left knee joint to right hip socket is parallel to the angle of approach approximated by the on plane right forearm that is the right forearm flying wedge....hand path also complying to this line...at top the left arm also has a parallel relationship to the angle of approach...right shoulder working OUT to the plane line on the line as well...sweet spot driven out...low deep hands hitting with a standing discus LAUNCHING pivot...game changing pattern....
Ok so this was a statement only made in the 7th edition to be clear not stated in earlier editions....
No, Whip, that wording goes all the way back to the first edition (1969). What is different in the 7th is that the final two sentences of the 6th were cut -- one going all the way back to the first edition -- and replaced with the following truncation:
"Delayed Hip Action is the only Variation that assures 'Clearing of the Right Hip' in both directions (2-N-0). So Hip Action is delayed until Start Down."
Note that Homer Kelley has underlined the word 'Action'. In TGM, Motion and Action are different animals. Just because something moves doesn't mean it is causing anything to happen. Action, on the other hand, means that work is actually being done. And what Homer is telling us here is that, in the Delayed Hip Turn, the Action (work) of the Hip Turn doesn't begin until Start Down (when it Pulls the Shoulders down). In Standard Action, the Hip Turn's work begins in Start Up (when it Pulls the Shoulders back).
This is why the Hip Turn (Component #14) and Hip Action (Component #15) are differentiated. It is not enough to simply classify the movement. You must also classify the work.
Master Machinist Eddie Cox....Preturn the right hip until the "line" from the left knee joint to right hip socket is parallel to the angle of approach approximated by the on plane right forearm that is the right forearm flying wedge....hand path also complying to this line...at top the left arm also has a parallel relationship to the angle of approach...right shoulder working OUT to the plane line on the line as well...sweet spot driven out...low deep hands hitting with a standing discus LAUNCHING pivot...game changing pattern....
Beautiful explanation from Mr. Cox and 6PieceBucket!
Kevin
Only 6 cause I be on another diet...
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Originally Posted by Par71
I understand that Delayed Hip Action with preturned Hips will assure Clearing of the Right Hip. But preturning the Hips is not mandatory for Delayed Hip Action, is it? Homer says "Turn the Hips a predetermined amount - or none at all - and then semi-lock them at that point before starting back with either the Shoulders or the Club." (Bold by me.)
I took the quote in my first post above to mean that Delayed Hip Action even without preturned Hips would assure Clearing of the Right Hip, whereas Standard Hip Action would not. Maybe that was not intended.
Originally Posted by Yoda
No, Par71, that most certainly was not the intent. In fact, a "sticky" right hip has produced probably more horrendous golf shots under tournament pressure than any other error. Ask Greg Norman, whose closet would have at least one or two green jackets if that were not the case coming down the stretch.
The "or none at all" you bolded refers to those Strokes where no Hip Turn -- pre-cleared or otherwise -- is necessary, e.g., a ten-foot putt.
I do not think putting would be applicable to a delayed hip action because the hips power the downstroke shoulder turn with this variation, I think you would use zero hip action with zero hip turn for putting...
I do not think putting would be applicable to a delayed hip action because the hips power the downstroke shoulder turn with this variation, I think you would use zero hip action with zero hip turn for putting...
Wow. See how confusing this is?
I used a ten-foot putt to make the most obvious example I could think of.
Originally Posted by Yoda
The "or none at all" you bolded refers to those Strokes where no Hip Turn -- pre-cleared or otherwise -- is necessary, e.g., a ten-foot putt.
You can't have a Hip Action if there is no Hip Turn.
When you related putting to delayed hip action, that is what was confusing. Otherwise I would not have posted. I have Reread the post and still do not find it confusing.
If you'll read my post carefully, you'll see that I wrote "Hip Turn" not Hip Action (Delayed or otherwise).
And, a Hip Turn that moves "none at all" -- the point that was under discussion and which I took to the extreme in my putting example (no Hip Turn in either direction) -- is classified as a Zero Hip Turn (10-14-E). This Component Variation automatically produces a Zero Hip Action (10-15-D) -- not Standard, Delayed, or Short. It also tends to automatically produce Zero Knee Action (10-16-E) and Zero Foot Action (10-17-E). All this constrains the Shoulder Turn but does not initiate it (in either direction). Hence, no work, and by definition, no Action.
That said, let's take the subject a bit further. It is possible for the Hips to Turn in the Stroke, yet do no work. This situation would also be classified as Zero Hip Action, even though there was a Hip Turn.
In this instance, the Hips are providing motion only, and that motion may resemble the Standard Action (free Turn with Hips leading in both directions). However, they are not pulling the shoulders in either direction, a fact usually evidenced by a "perceptible slackness in the Hip and Shoulder relationship".
Hybrid Mode
