Lynn asked me to reply to the general discussion regarding CP (centripetal force)
and CF (centrifugal force) motions per Mac O'Grady. Here goes:
By way of explanation, I "managed" Mac's schools for six and half years (2001 - 2008 ). I attended over 30 schools and was part of the teaching team for these schools. I was also, at the time, one of two people allowed to use the MORAD
logo for my teaching.
CF motion uses a lateral shift of the hips beginning the downswing, with the left arm angled about 20 degrees inside to the target line at the point the left arm is parallel to the ground (know as Position 5). The right elbow moves toward the right hip. Then the right arm begins to straighten when the club is parallel to the ground (P6). The hips "elevate" to impact. Flight of the ball is predominantly a push to push/fade, although any flight is possible via club face position. Generally, it is always a higher flight than a CP motion.
A CP motion is an outward force - the rotation of the left shoulder is more level to the ground - horizontal (Mac believes the left shoulder position is monitored, not the right shoulder). The hands are brought predominantly outward, rather than moving downward, and the left arm is parallel to the target line at P5 (see above). This rotational motion is continued through impact. This motion produces a lower trajectory, and a left to right ball flight (generally).
I can tell you that a CP motion is a body driven motion - very little to no shifting of the hips, and a lower finish vs. the CF finish.
The key point with regard to other posts is that both motions are body and/or left arm driven - the right arm is not flimsy, but does not play a major role in either swing model.
The key point with regard to other posts is that both motions are body and/or left arm driven - the right arm is not flimsy, but does not play a major role in either swing model.
Are you talking about the right forearm being on the inclined plane at impact here?
Is what you mean by the RF return to the right angle of approach?
At Impact Fix, the Primary Lever is In line with a Flat and Level Left Wrist and the Right Forearm Wedge is "Intact" with a Level and Bent Right Wrist and the "Forearm" is Against the underside of the Plane while the #3 PP is On-Plane tracing the Plane Line. The Right Forearm while against the Plane is Angled Down, Forward and Outward. That's the Forearm Angle of Approach. It's not just the Angle, but it's the Angle of the Right Forearm when the Wedges are Intact, especially the Right Forearm Flying Wedge.
As I have discussed with Yoda, I do think Mac's CF and CP models reflect swinging and hitting patterns, but in Mac's terms.
The one point of contention I had with Mac is both swing models are from the same top of backswing position - it is a long way to CP motion from an "arc of approach" top of swing position (as compared to "angle of approach". Also, in neither case is the right forearm driving during the downswing/release.
This discussion is not about Mac; but I think his work is very valuable and as all of us should, he and we, are trying to continue Homer's work.
I haven't watched Mr. Erickson's discussion but I will definitely do so. I'm sure his insights will be valuable to us all. Thanks for the time.
As I have discussed with Yoda, I do think Mac's CF and CP models
reflect swinging and hitting patterns, but in Mac's terms.
The one point of contention I had with Mac is both swing models are from the same top of backswing position - it is a long way to CP motion from an "arc of approach" top of swing position (as compared to "angle of approach". Also, in neither case is the right forearm driving during the downswing/release.
This discussion is not about Mac; but I think his work is very
valuable and as all of us should, he and we, are trying to continue Homer's work.
I haven't watched Mr. Erickson's discussion but I will definitely do so. I'm sure his insights will be valuable to us all. Thanks for the time.
Glad you're here fladan, very interesting stuff.
Nice to hear these things from someone who got it first hand (and understood it).......sorta like talking about all things Homer with Lynn. No broken telephone so to speak.
During one of my first breakfasts with Lynn, I believe at the Cracker Barrel in Marieta....I asked him about all these other definitions of TGM things I was reading here and there. Lynn paused then made a motion as if to pull an I.V. out of his forearm arm and then held it to my arm, looked me right in the eye and said " its a mainline....from Homer to me and now to you. What you are getting is not second hand or third, its first hand".
That moment kinda stuck with me, you might say. That was a great day all around actually, in many ways.
Lynn asked me to reply to the general discussion regarding CP (centripetal force)and CF (centrifugal force) motions per Mac O'Grady. Here goes:
By way of explanation, I "managed" Mac's schools for six and half years (2001 - 2008 ). I attended over 30 schools and was part of the teaching team for these schools. I was also, at the time, one of two people allowed to use the MORAD logo for my teaching.
CF motion uses a lateral shift of the hips beginning the downswing, with the left arm angled about 20 degrees inside to the target line at the point the left arm is parallel to the ground (know as Position 5). The right elbow moves toward the right hip. Then the right arm begins to straighten when the club is parallel to the ground (P6). The hips "elevate" to impact. Flight of the ball is predominantly a push to push/fade, although any flight is possible via club face position. Generally, it is always a higher flight than a CP motion.
A CP motion is an outward force - the rotation of the left shoulder is more level to the ground - horizontal (Mac believes the left shoulder position is monitored, not the right shoulder). The hands are brought predominantly outward, rather than moving downward, and the left arm is parallel to the target line at P5 (see above). This rotational motion is continued through impact. This motion produces a lower trajectory, and a left to right ball flight (generally).
I can tell you that a CP motion is a body driven motion - very little to no shifting of the hips, and a lower finish vs. the CF finish.
The key point with regard to other posts is that both motions are body and/or left arm driven - the right arm is not flimsy, but does not play a major role in either swing model.
At least according to Mac....
Dan,
Thanks so much for this great post and your follow-up above. Your years of experience with Mac is an invaluable resource, especially now when combined with your knowledge of The Golfing Machine.
I have had many students -- amateur and professional -- but none more dedicated to the pursuit of learning and mastery of the teaching craft. It has been my pleasure and privilege to watch your dedicated pursuit over the past 2 1/2 years. Impressive.
And I know you've been "eating your own cooking": Those mid-sixties scores you've been posting lately are getting b-o-r-i-n-g! I think you're getting it!
Proud to have you aboard, Dan, as my friend, student, counselor, and Lynn Blake Certified Senior Instructor. Thanks again for your many contributions to LBG and the benchmark of professionalism you set for us all.
Hybrid Mode
