Shoulder turn takeaway takes the Hands in the direction the Shoulders are traveling
Who says that you can't do both simultaneously? That's what I'm doing when I play my best golf. Feels like starting the back swing with feet and arms basically.
Daryl,
Thanks for a very thorough and very advanced reply. I'm not sure if I understand all of what you say.
My problem with single plane is that I am no good at it. And one of the issues I have is that I loose the sense of right hand control in the down stroke.
Being a plane shifter I don't see my own ball striking in you description. I use the hands a lot - for distance & trajectory control. The pivot for sure doesn't control nor command what the hands do. And the hands aren't able control the pivot either. Right hand lag pressure is key to distance control on less than full shots.
I find it much easier to achieve a stable pressure point balance and a steady clubhead through the ball on the elbow plane than any other plane.
Of course, all of this may be due to personal style & preferences.
Who says that you can't do both simultaneously? That's what I'm doing when I play my best golf. Feels like starting the back swing with feet and arms basically.
Yes , exactly do both as opposed to merely a shoulder turn takeaway. Hands to Pivot does not mean that the Pivot does not start things going in Startup. The pivot can provide the initial move away, but given an intention to Trace it will become Hands to Pivot. I too feel like my best golf sees my pivot getting things started in Startup. The first few inches or whatever. My right hip turns back accompanied by a lagging takeaway, then my right forearm fans and picks up. All the time Im Tracing.
Again, if your Tracing you're good. Hands to Pivot.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
The game is gradually recovering. Scores are going down. The short game is back. But the ball striking isn't really back yet. I have a few holes on every round where I completely lose it from tee to green. I am still struggling with bad habits from when I tried to start with the right forearm on plane. (And probably some bad habits that are even older) When it happens I completely lose the pressure point balance that enables me to pull & push and trap the ball. With the driver then, the club comes inside-out with open club face. The swing feels OK but the ball ends up on someone's roof - if let the pivot go all in. I discovered the other day that I am arching with my left wrist on the top when this happens. That is something I can deliberately avoid if I think about it. But then we're talking hand manipulation. When I have the alignments right I can just swing back and strike through and the ball gets trapped without any manipulation whatsoever. When I'm out in the back yard and just sweep through the grass I get regularly reminders that I still have have it.
The swing clicks in from time to time when I play too. A couple of rounds ago it clicked in on the back nine when I tried to hit a low percentage shot with a hybryd 200 yards away from the pin, with a small but steep hill right in front of the ball. Unfortunately I didn't get the launch high enough to carry the hill so it went into overspin modus and went half the distance. But I knew I had it then, I proceeded to hit the ball to 2 feet from 100 yards, saved the par and went on to basically hit every green for the last 5-6 holes. I could go out and play in the 70s tomorrow but I don't think it will happen for quite some time yet.
My experiences with plane shift is almost entirely the opposite of what Daryl has written so either he is wrong or I am rather untypical. I need to keep the shaft on a rather flat angle to get stability and a max lag pressure through impact. The steeper the shaft angle becomes at impact the closer I get to a flip release, the less lag pressure I am able to apply through impact and the less predictable the result gets.
I am not 100% certain whether I am really plane shifting or merely keeping the club shaft on a flatter plane throughout. As OB Left has pointed out, the swing plane doesn't have to be the shaft plane. The stroke looks like a shift down to the elbow plane, but it feels like being on the plane at all times. It could be that I'm using a Hank Haney type of parallell planes, with the club head on plane all the time. The whole stroke feels pretty much like a dual horizontal motion with an accumulator 3 motion that is very flat, so to speak. Anyway, this shallow shaft plane gets me as far away from flip territory as I can get. It works pretty well in the short game too.
) When it happens I completely lose the pressure point balance that enables me to pull & push and trap the ball. With the driver then, the club comes inside-out with open club face. The swing feels OK but the ball ends up on someone's roof - if let the pivot go all in. I discovered the other day that I am arching with my left wrist on the top when this happens. That is something I can deliberately avoid if I think about it. But then we're talking hand manipulation. When I have the alignments right I can just swing back and strike through and the ball gets trapped without any manipulation whatsoever. When I'm out in the back yard and just sweep through the grass I get regularly reminders that I still have have it. 
Hybrid Mode
