No. What I mean is: At address if I cock my left wrist by lifting the shaft vertically with the mid finger of my right hand I need to relax the grip of my right hand to maintain a level right wrist.The life line cup in my right hand will then dissociate/slide
above the base of my left hand.
Yoda shows this cocking action of the left wrist in the dvd series with the fingers of his right hand lifting the shaft. But then he was not gripping the club in the usual way. Thanks for your clarifications. I wonder if I am missing some major alignement here.
Ok now I know what you mean. I cant remember how Yoda did it in Alignment Golf , Ill have to look it up. With the club in front of you, the hands at waist height and a proper golf grip , you get what you describe. Which is why Ive seen it demonstrated from that position with the hands spread apart a significant distance. Then things work as advertised. Like a construction crane or one of those common screen door type automatic door closers. A hinge and a Piston type deal. The Bending Elbow cocks the Left Wrist while Right Hand stays level, doesnt cock. The Hands being so close together make it harder to see the crane like mechanics in play, the shortening of the piston increasing the angle at the other side of the triangle.
Now try it with a golf grip but from a more golf like position or point at which this business normally takes place. The Hands behind you somewhat as if on the backswing. There you should see the Right Elbow work some Magic. If not then make sure that your Right Arm is not locked straight, that you arent over rotating the shoulders, "rocking the triangle". Its a Magic killer that one. Sort of like replacing the door closers piston with a fixed length rod.
There are people who are convinced the right hand must cock with with the left. I used to be. How the heck did Homer figure this one out? It will bring so much simplicity, consistency and added power to your game. The RFFW stays in tact throughout the entire swing and smacks the crap out of the ball. The ball hasnt got a chance. It's a mechanical alignment again. Like a wall built perpendicular to a floor. Its just the way it works best thats all. Its not a golf move or tip or opinion or anything. Its a longer, heavier lever that the ball can not resist as it passes. And remember the bit about Ball Speed being a product of 70 percent of the Approach speed and 100 percent of the Separation speed. There is something to be said power wise about reducing Impact deflection. Another example of why Homer thought it was better to be "heavy' than "quick". This RFFW is truly "massive".
Dont cock your Right Wrist and lose the RFFW ,the plane of the Right Hand Bend even for a short while. The perceived benefits dont justify the risk. Besides you have the Left Wist cock or the Right Elbow to give you all the velocity you need. If you were a one armed golfer maybe it would be a different story for Total Motion. Maybe?
Got it OB, thanks for your comprehensive reply. With the arms at a distance, would you agree that as the left wrist cocks, there is a slight corresponding anti clockwise rotation of the right forearm?
Got it OB, thanks for your comprehensive reply. With the arms at a distance, would you agree that as the left wrist cocks, there is a slight corresponding anti clockwise rotation of the right forearm?
Hmm. I want to say no but without the benefit of knowing your Alignments I cant say whether this a feel you associate with correct Plane and Face compliance going back or not. For instance, I used to roll my wrists under the plane, Nancy Lopez style. The correction felt like a reverse roll to me but it wasnt really. Does the right forearm rotate anti clockwise due to something the right elbow is doing, flying out or something? What type of #3 pressure point are you loading , the first joint in the index finger or the Knuckle? Hmm? Does the left forearm rotate too? If no and its just a right forearm rotation then maybe you need to research RFT, fanning and bending, the Right Arm Pickup, the Indian chiefs "how" like move of Alignment Golf. Are you lawnmower cord pulling with a flying right elbow?
To answer this question for yourself take a look at you Startup and Backswing. If one end the of the club or the other points at the Plane Line you are Plane Line Compliant, ClubSHAFT. I like to slide the butt end of grip out 6 inches or so see where its pointing better. If your Left Wrist is Perpendicular to one of the Three Basic Planes (Horizontal, Vertical or Angled as in the Inclined Plane) in Startup you are executing a Hinge Action and controlling the ClubFACE.
Typically a Reverse Roll is associated with Vertical Hinging an intentional manipulation of the clubface to reduce compression and increase loft as in a Flop Shot say. That it why I wanted to say NO at first glance. But what may feel like something to you may in fact be something else in terms of Alignments and so you must look, LOOK, LOOK at you club shaft and club face to answer the question yourself. Something we should all do while practicing or warming up, every day.
Get these two functions of the golf club, Clubshaft and Clubface Aligned correctly and you need only add Clubhead control to have total control over the entire golf club and therefore the ball as well. Sounds easy eh?
PS Sometimes whats at issue is the Vertical only Plane of the Left Wrist cock, The Left Arm Flying Wedge. You must maintain this Plane of Motion in your Left Hand Wrist Cock. To see what this is, is to see what condition your Left Wrist will be in when fully cocked. It is seldom literally flat. Its referred as "flat" or "geometrically flat" but it isnt truly flat for most grip types anyways. With just your left hand on the club, you LAFW in line, cock the club up vertically in front of you, like a hammering motion. See how a "neutral " left hand grip will show some additional bend at Top. Neutral still being slightly turned over on to top of the shaft. Let your left arm dangle at your side without a club in it to see how it rests at approx a 45 degree angle to the Plane Line. Neutral is not the back of the left hand facing the target! That is weak. And probably another of golfs "seems as ifs" or false logics. Why is are the hands aligned at angles like that? Hand to mouth takes takes precedence over Hand to Target in an evolutionary sense! Maybe millions of years from now things will evolve to a more golf centric alignment, in the mean time lets just turn the Hands a bit. Each grip type will have a different look at Top when you isolate the plane of the left wrist cock like this. This is what it must look like when you Look , Look , Look at it during a practice stroke or startdown waggle. To NOT achieve this correct left hand condition at Top is to have introduced some Horizontal left wrist motion into what should have been a purely Vertical Plane of Motion as in your hammer drill.
The LAFW , the RFFW one operates on a vertical plane (the plane of the left wrist cock) the other on a horizontal plane (the plane of the Right Hand Bend). They are aligned at 90 degrees to each other. One running through the Top and Bottom of the shaft , one through the For and Aft of the shaft. Each with its own associated pressure points. One plane thrusted by the swinger the other by the Hitter, normally, classically. Now we're getting into the real meat of Homers revelation. But to get there , to use it, you have to comply with the Alignments or suffer from the complications and the compensations they require. Its the uncompensated swing that we should seek not a set of positions, or maneuvers that typically have no accompanying consideration for the proper Alignments.
Im rambling again sorry, I just started some holidays and am really fired up to play some golf down in Florida. Let me at it. I feel like Tiger about to enter a Perkins or something, pre Thanksgiving 2009.
Got it OB, thanks for your comprehensive reply. With the arms at a distance, would you agree that as the left wrist cocks, there is a slight corresponding anti clockwise rotation of the right forearm?
A nice drill to check the takeaway is to get into an impact fix position, then lift the club up to chest high and turn the shoulders 90 degrees, without changing anything about the hands and arms.
That is a decent check on mid/top position, and you can then turn to face the new direction and lower the arms back down to see if you are still in an impact fix position (no turn or roll).
This is also a good way to see if the arms have gotten too 'deep'.
fix/top/impact/finish should have the SAME alignments for the hands and arms.
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So a quick update: I've been working at improving my pivot, footwork, and have been trying to work on attacked from the 4:30 line or elbow plane. I'm still having major inconsistency issues with fats, hosel hits, pulls, pushes, solids, and the occasional hook or push slice. My low point is off, and I'm all over the map. My pivot still looks pretty bad, I can't seem to implement the advice given by you guys. Again I want to thank you for being generous with your advice. Here are some newer videos, the face on being from a different session where I struggled with a super inside takeaway. Thanks again everyone
So a quick update: I've been working at improving my pivot, footwork, and have been trying to work on attacked from the 4:30 line or elbow plane. I'm still having major inconsistency issues with fats, hosel hits, pulls, pushes, solids, and the occasional hook or push slice. My low point is off, and I'm all over the map. My pivot still looks pretty bad, I can't seem to implement the advice given by you guys. Again I want to thank you for being generous with your advice. Here are some newer videos, the face on being from a different session where I struggled with a super inside takeaway. Thanks again everyone
Dude you have some really nice things going on in this golf swing. But you can fix a lot of those issues by cleaning up your pivot.
This is a beautiful picture here . . . . love the arm position . . . really nice.
Arms working really nice here too . . . I wish I could get this look. But here you can see you are starting to spin open too much.
Here's your issue . . . you have NO axis tilt . . . your hips are stalled out . . .
Compare your vertical spine to these . . . Hips gotta turn AND SLIDE.
You need to hit TONS of shots where you stop just slightly above this position . . . you want to finish with your legs straight and stretched out . . . hips up . . . feel like you are pinching a penny in your butt cheeks . . . finish with your arms stretched out and the club below or in line with your hands . . . not recocked. You need to learn how to control low point and extend the radius of the swing . . . full lever extension. For you it should probably feel like NO TURNING . . you already know how to turn thru the ball . . . you need to learn how to slide your hips forward and get your tea cup tilted.
You need to tatoo this picture to your forehead. Note how your arms are "all shrinked up" . . .
Notice how much farther forward, up and turned Hogan's hips are than Ernies . . . not the clubface on els . . . once your hips stop going the face is going to flash fast . . . .
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 04-12-2010 at 11:05 AM.
My angles are different due to my imbalances (emotional and physical). So, let's pretend we are speaking about everyone. The right hand only cocks so far as the address position and no further?
My RF takeaway is like me throwing my right thumb over my shoulder as if I were hitch-hiking and I can see at least two creases in my right wrist. And, while most of my shots are much better given a 21 hcp., hitting a 7 iron 155 with some roll and a driver 230 ish straight, is not really championship flight stuff. Our club champ is 30 yards in front in our reg foursome and our "B" champ is 15 yards in front our reg foursome.
You are indicating that if I maintain that tiny address right hand address and simply treat the whole RFFW below the elbow as a solid bronze cast, and either swing or hit, I will have much less compensation and inefficient power to my strike?
If my forearm is that solid, it will be harder to feel pp #3!
Patrick
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
The Bending Elbow cocks the Left Wrist while Right Hand stays level, doesnt cock.
Now try it with a golf grip but from a more golf like position or point at which this business normally takes place. The Hands behind you somewhat as if on the backswing. There you should see the Right Elbow work some Magic. If not then make sure that your Right Arm is not locked straight, that you arent over rotating the shoulders, "rocking the triangle". Its a Magic killer that one. Sort of like replacing the door closers piston with a fixed length rod.
There are people who are convinced the right hand must cock with with the left. I used to be. How the heck did Homer figure this one out? It will bring so much simplicity, consistency and added power to your game. The RFFW stays in tact throughout the entire swing and smacks the crap out of the ball. The ball hasnt got a chance. It's a mechanical alignment again. Like a wall built perpendicular to a floor. Its just the way it works best thats all. Its not a golf move or tip or opinion or anything. Its a longer, heavier lever that the ball can not resist as it passes. And remember the bit about Ball Speed being a product of 70 percent of the Approach speed and 100 percent of the Separation speed. There is something to be said power wise about reducing Impact deflection. Another example of why Homer thought it was better to be "heavy' than "quick". This RFFW is truly "massive".
Dont cock your Right Wrist and lose the RFFW ,the plane of the Right Hand Bend even for a short while. The perceived benefits dont justify the risk. Besides you have the Left Wist cock or the Right Elbow to give you all the velocity you need. If you were a one armed golfer maybe it would be a different story for Total Motion. Maybe?
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I think your pivot looks quite good. I know a lot of single handicappers who doesn't look nearly as good as this. Swing plane looks good too.
But you're not using the pivot correctly though.
Pic 16-17-18 shows that you have an outside-in motion while the other guy is turning properly through the ball.
Pic 16: His hands are lower, he has more Accumulator #2 angle and he has much more shoulder turn left. He is positioned to swing the club straight down and straight through the ball.
If you from pic 16 were able to turn your shoulders on a very steep plane (by hip tilt) you could keep the swing plane and get away with it with flying colors (and perhaps a bad back after a few years). But your hands aren't going down under. Instead your shoulders are turning out to the left field. And this brings your hands - and then your club outsidde the swing plane. And I bet you loose a lot of lag pressure too.
Frame by frame you need to get your hands quicker down towards the ground. Your hands. Not your club head. The longer you let the club point towards the sky, the faster it will release. And you need to somehow delay your basically horizontal shoulder turn through those very same frames. Get your hands under your right shoulder - not around it.
So how do you get the hands quicker down? Three things that can help: 1) More forward bend from the hips at address (but I think you look good already), 2) More hula-hula: A little hip tilt in the back swing and some more forward hip tilt in the down swing. Hip tilt from the top can get your hands down pretty quick. 3) By pressing down with your right arm. Eventually you will have to turn your shoulders out of the way, but that will produce on-plane power if your hands are low enough when it happens.
If you have the yellow book you should look up "aiming point" it may get you a long way without thinking about a lot of body parts. Or you can use Ian Wosnam's old swing thought: "Down. And (then turn) through".
PS: Watch the pictures above of yourself, Hogan and Snead earlier in this thread. Your shoulders are quite as steep as theirs on the top of the back swing. But see how flat your shoulders are at impact and how much steeper their's are at impact.
Was mr. Woosnam a swinger or hitter? Does bending over more at hips mean turning on the shoulder plane/one plane?
Thanks.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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