Great post of 12 something but that's not totally unexpected.
Question is: What do you do to make everything stretch as per Ben Hogan?
IMO, timing and sort of aiming point has a lot to do with it. If you try to swing your hands back to where they were at address you will not get there. If you try to drive your hands and club towards the dirt - somewhere deep behind the ball - perhaps even behind your right foot - you will feel the pressure. And If you keep driving there and pulling - your pivot will keep turning. And before you know it you've hit the ball with a lot of pivot power. Harder than you've ever done before And if you're lucky the club weights a tonn at impact (hint: Heavy club feel means good acceleration).
like the Left Wrist getting cocked by the Right Elbow for instance.
O.b.
I have been struggling with this concept for a while now... When I try to cock the left wrist with the right elbow, the fleshy pad of my left thumb slides down approx an inch from the cup in my right hand. To maintain the snug fit of fleshy pad of left hand in the cup of my right hand without cocking the right wrist, I have to rotate both forearms slightly anti clockwise. Is that ok?
Thanks OB for your very valuable posts in this forum.
You shouldn't try to cock it with your right elbow. You should simply let it happen when it happens.
Think of where you want to have your hands at the top (or at the end) of the back stroke. Bring the hands there with a quiet (Yoda says frozen I think) right wrist. One that is level and bent. This motion - the pickup of the club with a quiet right wrist - will cock the left wrist as a "side effect". It is a geometrical necessity.
Keeping the right wrist quiet while during the back stroke is a winner as far as getting in a good position at the top because it promotes a good rhythm. In many ways it's the opposite of deliberately trying to cock the left wrist, something that can be a stroke wrecker.
I have been struggling with this concept for a while now... When I try to cock the left wrist with the right elbow, the fleshy pad of my left thumb slides down approx an inch from the cup in my right hand. To maintain the snug fit of fleshy pad of left hand in the cup of my right hand without cocking the right wrist, I have to rotate both forearms slightly anti clockwise. Is that ok?
Thanks OB for your very valuable posts in this forum.
Paul
Bernt is feeling it Id say. Love his last sentence there and think that is the tremendous simplicity and efficiency that a Hitter feels (assuming he starts from Fix). He just maintains those Impact Hands and takes them up and down a Plane without much thought to Left Wrist Cock or Right Hand bending. The Swinger who never goofs with Hitting will have a tough time discovering or understanding the tremendous advantage of the frozen right wrist (and getting to both arms straight but thats another story).
Swingers or Hitters who starts back from Adjusted Address, Mid Body Hands have to go from a Bent Left/Flat Right set of hands to Impact Hands dynamically. Which isnt easy to find. You only want the amount of Right Wrist Bend you prescribed at Fix , no more, no less. Each ball position will be different right. I found out the hard way that its not a "the more the better " thing with the bending Right Hand. An over Bending of the Right Hand at Top will often arch the Left! Grip type can really contribute to this predicament. Especially if you tend to an neutral Left , strong Right grip which I did, now Ive got my Right Hand on top a bit and no amount of over bending the Right Hand could by itself arch the Left Hand.
I believe one of Homers biggest obstacles was that a great golf swing often appears to be more rubber wristed than it actually is. Its hard to adopt structure (longer levers) for instance when you think Hogan had "loose wrists" or something. Mention something like that in front of Lynn and run for cover, baby. "There isnt anything LOOSE about it". "The universal joint may be free to move in certain ways but it is NOT LOOSE IN ANY WAY" etc etc. And he has one nice Snap Release and some serious #2 Angle on him, Lynn does. I made that mistake one time, Luke was there and he was just grinning from ear to ear at me as Lynn started to get all fired up. Structure was a tough sell for Homer a lot of times. I have a feeling there is a long lineage of students who get that lesson. From Homers first A.I.s all the way on down. Homer was very resolute about it to say the least. I can however honestly say that my bad spells can still be attributed to searching out #2 angle the wrong way. Dont tell LYnn please. That #2 Angle is just so dang beautiful, I cant help myself sometimes. Sort of like Ulysses and the Sirens.............yes two Homers each with their own Sirens. The original ones were beautiful and beguiling songstresses, Mr Kelley's were rubber wristed. Both of em will kill you.
Plgolfer, do you mean your Left Thumb extends as you cock the Left Wrist? There is a photo of Hogan at Top where his Left Thumb is shockingly long. Some say it has extended during the swing, some say his Left Thumb wasnt as short at Address as he maintained. So, its hard to say whats going on for you without seeing it. Maybe your Left Hand is trying to get a better place? A place it wants to be. Or maybe not? To see where it should be, where its strongest try hitting shots with just your left Hand on the club and see what grip you adopt automatically or try bending the shaft against a door frame or some immovable object. Your grip (and a bunch of other alignments) will morph into a good position. That left thumb wants to be on the aft at Impact! Mine does, but it also wants to be on top of the shaft at address for some reason. It still fears the left side of the fairway that thumb of mine, its conflicted, despite the fact I hit fades now.
The thing about the Magic of the Right Forearm, 7-3 for me was that in order for the bending right elbow to get all of that tremendous list of stuff done, bring all that simplification to the party, ...........I had to turn off all of my old ways. Those are hard switches to find let alone turn off. Itll take some work and each of us has a different list of old ways. For me, some went all the way back to my earliest golf years. My list included .......Left Side pushaway, hand rolling under plane with an arched left hand (that wont want to cock), "rocking the triangle".... two straight arms going back with the right elbow locked, lifting the arms with the arms etc etc the list is long and still being compiled. I had to remove these blockages, these actions, to avoid the conflict of actions, to simplify, to see glimpses of the Magic Homer refers to. Search out things that prevent your Right Elbow from Bending, "on its own" as Bernt said. That would be good first place to check.
Keep working on it. It'll make more sense as you get further into it.
I forgot about the address position. That is important. You have to be more handsy from adjusted address than from fix. But that should be more of a fanning motion than a cocking motion.
I am not 100% TGM in my takeaway and I don't know if I'll ever be. That is one of the reasons I say quiet right wrist and not frozen.
But nevertheless, quiet/frozen right wrist works very well as a key in the back stroke.
Plgolfer, do you mean your Left Thumb extends as you cock the Left Wrist?
No. What I mean is: At address if I cock my left wrist by lifting the shaft vertically with the mid finger of my right hand I need to relax the grip of my right hand to maintain a level right wrist.The life line cup in my right hand will then dissociate/slide
above the base of my left hand.
Yoda shows this cocking action of the left wrist in the dvd series with the fingers of his right hand lifting the shaft. But then he was not gripping the club in the usual way. Thanks for your clarifications. I wonder if I am missing some major alignement here.
No. What I mean is: At address if I cock my left wrist by lifting the shaft vertically with the mid finger of my right hand I need to relax the grip of my right hand to maintain a level right wrist.The life line cup in my right hand will then dissociate/slide
above the base of my left hand.
Yoda shows this cocking action of the left wrist in the dvd series with the fingers of his right hand lifting the shaft. But then he was not gripping the club in the usual way. Thanks for your clarifications. I wonder if I am missing some major alignement here.
Ok now I know what you mean. I cant remember how Yoda did it in Alignment Golf , Ill have to look it up. With the club in front of you, the hands at waist height and a proper golf grip , you get what you describe. Which is why Ive seen it demonstrated from that position with the hands spread apart a significant distance. Then things work as advertised. Like a construction crane or one of those common screen door type automatic door closers. A hinge and a Piston type deal. The Bending Elbow cocks the Left Wrist while Right Hand stays level, doesnt cock. The Hands being so close together make it harder to see the crane like mechanics in play, the shortening of the piston increasing the angle at the other side of the triangle.
Now try it with a golf grip but from a more golf like position or point at which this business normally takes place. The Hands behind you somewhat as if on the backswing. There you should see the Right Elbow work some Magic. If not then make sure that your Right Arm is not locked straight, that you arent over rotating the shoulders, "rocking the triangle". Its a Magic killer that one. Sort of like replacing the door closers piston with a fixed length rod.
There are people who are convinced the right hand must cock with with the left. I used to be. How the heck did Homer figure this one out? It will bring so much simplicity, consistency and added power to your game. The RFFW stays in tact throughout the entire swing and smacks the crap out of the ball. The ball hasnt got a chance. It's a mechanical alignment again. Like a wall built perpendicular to a floor. Its just the way it works best thats all. Its not a golf move or tip or opinion or anything. Its a longer, heavier lever that the ball can not resist as it passes. And remember the bit about Ball Speed being a product of 70 percent of the Approach speed and 100 percent of the Separation speed. There is something to be said power wise about reducing Impact deflection. Another example of why Homer thought it was better to be "heavy' than "quick". This RFFW is truly "massive".
Dont cock your Right Wrist and lose the RFFW ,the plane of the Right Hand Bend even for a short while. The perceived benefits dont justify the risk. Besides you have the Left Wist cock or the Right Elbow to give you all the velocity you need. If you were a one armed golfer maybe it would be a different story for Total Motion. Maybe?
Got it OB, thanks for your comprehensive reply. With the arms at a distance, would you agree that as the left wrist cocks, there is a slight corresponding anti clockwise rotation of the right forearm?
Got it OB, thanks for your comprehensive reply. With the arms at a distance, would you agree that as the left wrist cocks, there is a slight corresponding anti clockwise rotation of the right forearm?
Hmm. I want to say no but without the benefit of knowing your Alignments I cant say whether this a feel you associate with correct Plane and Face compliance going back or not. For instance, I used to roll my wrists under the plane, Nancy Lopez style. The correction felt like a reverse roll to me but it wasnt really. Does the right forearm rotate anti clockwise due to something the right elbow is doing, flying out or something? What type of #3 pressure point are you loading , the first joint in the index finger or the Knuckle? Hmm? Does the left forearm rotate too? If no and its just a right forearm rotation then maybe you need to research RFT, fanning and bending, the Right Arm Pickup, the Indian chiefs "how" like move of Alignment Golf. Are you lawnmower cord pulling with a flying right elbow?
To answer this question for yourself take a look at you Startup and Backswing. If one end the of the club or the other points at the Plane Line you are Plane Line Compliant, ClubSHAFT. I like to slide the butt end of grip out 6 inches or so see where its pointing better. If your Left Wrist is Perpendicular to one of the Three Basic Planes (Horizontal, Vertical or Angled as in the Inclined Plane) in Startup you are executing a Hinge Action and controlling the ClubFACE.
Typically a Reverse Roll is associated with Vertical Hinging an intentional manipulation of the clubface to reduce compression and increase loft as in a Flop Shot say. That it why I wanted to say NO at first glance. But what may feel like something to you may in fact be something else in terms of Alignments and so you must look, LOOK, LOOK at you club shaft and club face to answer the question yourself. Something we should all do while practicing or warming up, every day.
Get these two functions of the golf club, Clubshaft and Clubface Aligned correctly and you need only add Clubhead control to have total control over the entire golf club and therefore the ball as well. Sounds easy eh?
PS Sometimes whats at issue is the Vertical only Plane of the Left Wrist cock, The Left Arm Flying Wedge. You must maintain this Plane of Motion in your Left Hand Wrist Cock. To see what this is, is to see what condition your Left Wrist will be in when fully cocked. It is seldom literally flat. Its referred as "flat" or "geometrically flat" but it isnt truly flat for most grip types anyways. With just your left hand on the club, you LAFW in line, cock the club up vertically in front of you, like a hammering motion. See how a "neutral " left hand grip will show some additional bend at Top. Neutral still being slightly turned over on to top of the shaft. Let your left arm dangle at your side without a club in it to see how it rests at approx a 45 degree angle to the Plane Line. Neutral is not the back of the left hand facing the target! That is weak. And probably another of golfs "seems as ifs" or false logics. Why is are the hands aligned at angles like that? Hand to mouth takes takes precedence over Hand to Target in an evolutionary sense! Maybe millions of years from now things will evolve to a more golf centric alignment, in the mean time lets just turn the Hands a bit. Each grip type will have a different look at Top when you isolate the plane of the left wrist cock like this. This is what it must look like when you Look , Look , Look at it during a practice stroke or startdown waggle. To NOT achieve this correct left hand condition at Top is to have introduced some Horizontal left wrist motion into what should have been a purely Vertical Plane of Motion as in your hammer drill.
The LAFW , the RFFW one operates on a vertical plane (the plane of the left wrist cock) the other on a horizontal plane (the plane of the Right Hand Bend). They are aligned at 90 degrees to each other. One running through the Top and Bottom of the shaft , one through the For and Aft of the shaft. Each with its own associated pressure points. One plane thrusted by the swinger the other by the Hitter, normally, classically. Now we're getting into the real meat of Homers revelation. But to get there , to use it, you have to comply with the Alignments or suffer from the complications and the compensations they require. Its the uncompensated swing that we should seek not a set of positions, or maneuvers that typically have no accompanying consideration for the proper Alignments.
Im rambling again sorry, I just started some holidays and am really fired up to play some golf down in Florida. Let me at it. I feel like Tiger about to enter a Perkins or something, pre Thanksgiving 2009.
Got it OB, thanks for your comprehensive reply. With the arms at a distance, would you agree that as the left wrist cocks, there is a slight corresponding anti clockwise rotation of the right forearm?
A nice drill to check the takeaway is to get into an impact fix position, then lift the club up to chest high and turn the shoulders 90 degrees, without changing anything about the hands and arms.
That is a decent check on mid/top position, and you can then turn to face the new direction and lower the arms back down to see if you are still in an impact fix position (no turn or roll).
This is also a good way to see if the arms have gotten too 'deep'.
fix/top/impact/finish should have the SAME alignments for the hands and arms.
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but that's not totally unexpected.
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