Essentially you want the "longitudinal center of gravity" (imaginary line that would be from sweet spot to grip where PP3 is) laying on the face of the plane the whole time . . . so for discussion purposes just imagine or actually have a plane board . . . you want the shaft (really sweetspot/longitudinal COG) laying on the board the WHOLE time. Now that being said there is going to be some shifting as a result of how your body works and right elbow. But you want this shifting ideally to be MINIMAL . . . particularly the closer you get to the ball and past it. Otherwise you disrupt #3 angle and have tons of ramifications that result. So basically you want to move your components in a fashion that allow you to stay on the selected plane angle with minimal shifting going on . . . whether that be the elbow plane or TSP or eyeball plane or whatever . . . your choice . . .but move your components in compliance with the plane and the hand path that results.
So is this off plane because my hands are lower than the turned shoulder plane at impact?
And should the sweet spot travel up the turned shoulder plane on the back stroke?
Looks pretty good you come down the TSP and shift to elbow . . . good way to do it . . . do you have frames after that? You don't have some kind of whacky looking shift out and over . . . Like to see where the club and hands exit on the thru side.
So the question is this. Is the goal to get the hands clubshaft and the right shoulder to stay one this plane in the down stroke?
Could be if you want - but certainly only one option- doesn't need to - choice not a fundamental.
Then at impact should the clubshaft, hands, right forearm, and right shoulder be on this plane?
If that was your goal or choice - sure but not necessary.
So is this off plane because my hands are lower than the turned shoulder plane at impact? It's off the turned shoulder plane- Yes, but staying on one plane is not really that important- as long as any shifts still allow the sweetspot/clubhead feel to maintain it's relationship to the plane line.
And should the sweet spot travel up the turned shoulder plane on the back stroke? Could but not that important- it's a choice not a fundamental.
The Golfing Machine supports "my way" procedures but not "the way" theory.
Here's Mike O's feedback - You're going to see shifts- you're not going to get better by trying to stay on one plane- probably going to get worse. You want to maintain the clubshaft/sweetspot relationship to the plane line- understand the shifts but don't view them as inferior procedures. Not that you asked but the mechanical issues with your impact photo are - the right forearm is too high, inadequate hip slide/rotation (hips are "square"), the right foot is "flat". That's a result of other issues- loss of lag, or other issues- so I wouldn't work directly on the feel of the forearm location, nor the hip or footwork- they are affects of something else. However, when you find that something else- you'll see a different elbow, hip, foot "look" at impact. Anyway - food for thought. The first "issue" I would look at is your mat - get something where you can hit a more descending blow on a "fluffier" lie- otherwise you could be creating a swing that throws the clubhead in order to prevent you from hurting your wrists on the mat at impact.
Regardless of whether you are a plus 2 or a 15 handicap or somewhere in-between- that's what I see.
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The Golfing Machine supports "my way" procedures but not "the way" theory.
Here's Mike O's feedback - You're going to see shifts- you're not going to get better by trying to stay on one plane- probably going to get worse. You want to maintain the clubshaft/sweetspot relationship to the plane line- understand the shifts but don't view them as inferior procedures. Not that you asked but the mechanical issues with your impact photo are - the right forearm is too high, inadequate hip slide/rotation (hips are "square"), the right foot is "flat". That's a result of other issues- loss of lag, or other issues- so I wouldn't work directly on the feel of the forearm location, nor the hip or footwork- they are affects of something else. However, when you find that something else- you'll see a different elbow, hip, foot "look" at impact. Anyway - food for thought. The first "issue" I would look at is your mat - get something where you can hit a more descending blow on a "fluffier" lie- otherwise you could be creating a swing that throws the clubhead in order to prevent you from hurting your wrists on the mat at impact.
Regardless of whether you are a plus 2 or a 15 handicap or somewhere in-between- that's what I see.
OK stankbutt . . . .I take issue with it's OK to shift the plane angle if you "as long as any shifts still allow the sweetspot/clubhead feel to maintain it's relationship to the plane line." We had this discussion befo . . . if you raise the handle up . . the face angle magnet dealie (face vector) is out to the right . . . if you lower it down it's to the left . . . You can trace a straight plane line and still hit the ball crooked as if somebody hired you to run a bank. #3 disruption = potential direction issue regardless if you can trace a line better'n you trace a doctor's signature on prescriptions for Ox or flea and tick deterant.
I would certainly pay attention to any advice Mikey has on wrist hurting . . . or hair removal from palms.
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 09-27-2009 at 01:45 AM.
What’s up with this East Coast Mumbo-jumbo Witch-doctor analysis?
Grasp the grip of the club and hurdle it down the fairway. Notice that the Grip and Clubhead revolve end over end in the same plane. The club doesn’t wobble down the fairway. That's the principle behind the Plane and Clubshaft Control. Each Plane Shift can introduce a wobble. The Club wants to stay on Plane. The Clubshaft Likes the Plane. The Clubshaft is the Plane.
Ndwolfe81 is double shifting but the Golfclub doesn’t care which plane angle you choose to swing. It’s more efficient if your Clubshaft can stay on the same plane throughout the stroke. His Clubshaft and Right Forearm are on-plane at Impact. The Elbow Plane.
Ndwolfe81 has built-in double-shift. He doesn’t have a Rigid Power Package to maintain a no-shift during the Backstroke or Downstroke.
Straightening his right elbow during the Downstroke causes the shift from the Turned Shoulder Plane back to the Elbow Plane the same as over-bending the Right Elbow at the Top causes the Upward Shift. Don't believe me? Simply swing the Club without your Right Hand on the Club. You won't Shift Planes. Swing the Club without Straightening your Right Elbow during the Downswing and you won't Shift Planes. Therefore, keep a rigid Power Package.
The Principle behind the On-Plane Right Forearm is that it can direct and support the Clubshaft during release through Impact to Both Arms Straight. It’s the easiest way to maintain Clubshaft Control throughout the Stroke. The Right Arm Flying Wedge.
The Right Shoulder can support the Right Forearm up until Release. Then, the Power Package continues On-Plane while it unfolds (straightening the Right Elbow) and releases the Accumulators.
Note that any plane shift is only possible if the #3 or #2 pressure Point is maintaining a relationship to the Pivot. If the #2 or 3 Pressure Point maintains a relationship to the Plane Line (Tracing), then no shift would occur and the Right Elbow would not Straighten during the Downstroke until Release.
OK stankbutt . . . .I take issue with it's OK to shift the plane angle if you "as long as any shifts still allow the sweetspot/clubhead feel to maintain it's relationship to the plane line." We had this discussion befo . . . if you raise the handle up . . the face angle magnet dealie (face vector) is out to the right . . . if you lower it down it's to the left . . . You can trace a straight plane line and still hit the ball crooked as if somebody hired you to run a bank. #3 disruption = potential direction issue regardless if you can trace a line better'n you trace a doctor's signature on prescriptions for Ox or flea and tick deterant.
I would certainly pay attention to any advice Mikey has on wrist hurting . . . or hair removal from palms.
Hither Hand Wither Slither- Aloha- What?
Yes, you should set-up at the appropriate plane angle that you'll be coming back into at impact- but during full swings you'll see shifting planes during the swing.
Please follow your wife's, doctor's and my advice and get back on the medication - we're begging!
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So I was looking at the Amazing Changes section. It looks like the line drawn is the turned shoulder plane.
So the question is this. Is the goal to get the hands clubshaft and the right shoulder to stay one this plane in the down stroke?
Assuming you are using the TSP, Axis Tilt etc, yes. The Right Shoulder accelerates and takes the intact fully loaded power package, bent right right arm down plane towards the ball with out any power spillage. Power is "accumulated", "stored" and "delivered" to the "release" point. For the right shoulder to accurately deliver the stored power it must travel down the inclined plane.
Quote:
Then at impact should the clubshaft, hands, right forearm, and right shoulder be on this plane?
NO. The right shoulder can not be on the same plane as the right forearm assuming any right elbow bend. The right forearm flying wedge should lay on the Inclined Plane through impact. The right elbow should be bent at impact saving some thrust (passive , swinging or active, hitting) for the ball. The boxer punches, extends his arm through the target with a bent elbow at impact and full extension past impact. The golfer does the same, bent right arm at impact , full extension at Follow Through, Both Arms Straight. "Having lots of right arm" left for the ball is a key to compression.
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