The loft also has a lot to do whether or not you trace left or right of your targe line, right? If I create a significance divergence from in to out....ball appearing to be further back in my stance...the handle high...clubface pointed out in right field...I essentially have an in to out path with an open to the target line (but closed to the plane line) clubface which produces a higher launch angle (think Kenny Perry?) Whereas someone that traces a straight line left of the target line...has the ball further forward in the stance but it is still relative to low point...this produces an over the top move (OTT to the target not the plane line)...increases shaft lean...steeper angle of attack...lower launch angle. I know the MORAD boys call that a CP swing...the other extreme being CF. So it has a lot to do with that right? Makin' sense?
I guess NOT! If I want to hit it low into the prevailing Oklahoma gale I close the clubface...then trace a plane line perpendicular to the closed face...I then rotatate the machine to the right so that although the face is still hooded it is aligned to the intended target...resulting in a pull...with a lower trajectory. Apparently Sam Snead did a bit of this although I am sure he could do it all. My point was that tracing left tends to close the clubface relative to the target line (what MORAD refers to as CP)...tracing right has the clubface "open" to the target line thus increasing loft. So I guess the trip your sweetspot takes in relation to target line impacts...well...impact and the resulting launch angle. sorry for thinking out loud!
I guess NOT! If I want to hit it low into the prevailing Oklahoma gale I close the clubface...then trace a plane line perpendicular to the closed face...I then rotatate the machine to the right so that although the face is still hooded it is aligned to the intended target...resulting in a pull...with a lower trajectory. Apparently Sam Snead did a bit of this although I am sure he could do it all. My point was that tracing left tends to close the clubface relative to the target line (what MORAD refers to as CP)...tracing right has the clubface "open" to the target line thus increasing loft. So I guess the trip your sweetspot takes in relation to target line impacts...well...impact and the resulting launch angle. sorry for thinking out loud!
If I'm interpreting this right, aren't you tracing a plane line that is parallel to your target line? The only line that is different from 'normal' square/square is your stance line, which would be rotated to the right.
If I'm interpreting this right, aren't you tracing a plane line that is parallel to your target line? The only line that is different from 'normal' square/square is your stance line, which would be rotated to the right.
I may be a little muddled. I'm working off the premise that club face = starting direction and path relative to the club face = curvature. So, if I want to put any side spin on the ball.
Draw: face is aligned at the target. Plane line is angled ever so slightly to the right of the face and in this case the target line. Stance is square to my diveregent-right plane line, or closed to the target line. Ball starts straight and moves a few yards right to left...landing left of the target line. Of course I can aim it so that it lands right at the flag.
Fade: Face is aligned at the target. Plane line ever so slightly to the left of the face and in this case the target line. Stance is square to my divergent-left plane line, or open to the targt line. Ball starts straight and moves a few yards right of the original target line.
I also hit deliberate pushes and pulls, even push-draws and pull-cuts, but the less divergence the better. Am I on meth, or what? If I am, Bucket is to blame!
Face = starting direction Path = curvature, right? So, I can hit it super low if I hit a controlled pulled shot...Easy to aim seeings that it has no side spin on it (also good for wind.) I know Golfgnome's method of gearing the lag pressure down is best...I guess I am not quite at that level...I'll keep trying though. Plenty of opportunity on the Great plains! I am eager to know if I have missed something.
I may be a little muddled. I'm working off the premise that club face = starting direction and path relative to the club face = curvature. So, if I want to put any side spin on the ball.
Draw: face is aligned at the target. Plane line is angled ever so slightly to the right of the face and in this case the target line. Stance is square to my diveregent-right plane line, or closed to the target line. Ball starts straight and moves a few yards right to left...landing left of the target line. Of course I can aim it so that it lands right at the flag.
Fade: Face is aligned at the target. Plane line ever so slightly to the left of the face and in this case the target line. Stance is square to my divergent-left plane line, or open to the targt line. Ball starts straight and moves a few yards right of the original target line.
I also hit deliberate pushes and pulls, even push-draws and pull-cuts, but the less divergence the better. Am I on meth, or what? If I am, Bucket is to blame!
Face = starting direction Path = curvature, right? So, I can hit it super low if I hit a controlled pulled shot...Easy to aim seeings that it has no side spin on it (also good for wind.) I know Golfgnome's method of gearing the lag pressure down is best...I guess I am not quite at that level...I'll keep trying though. Plenty of opportunity on the Great plains! I am eager to know if I have missed something.
In your original post, I was a little confused when you said you trace a plane line that is perpendicular to your club face. If the clubface is pointed at the target, then you'd be tracing a line parallel to the target line.
Curvature caused by tracing a line that is right or left of the target line makes sense.
Then I think what you're also saying for the push/pull thing is that you rotate the machine but trace a plane line that is parallel to the target line to create a straight shot (face and path match). If the machine is rotated right, tracing the straight away plane line would feel like a pull and more like a push if rotated left. I've never tried that but it also makes sense to me.
Yip...that is what I was going for. i have learned when talking about "open" this and "close" that that is is important to know what it is closed to! I hit nice drawy shots with an "open" clubface all the time! Open to the straight line extending from the ball to the flag stick i.e. target line, but closed in relation to my plane line which is rotated closed in relation to the face which of course is open in relation to the original target line!
I guess NOT! If I want to hit it low into the prevailing Oklahoma gale I close the clubface...then trace a plane line perpendicular to the closed face...I then rotatate the machine to the right so that although the face is still hooded it is aligned to the intended target...resulting in a pull...with a lower trajectory. Apparently Sam Snead did a bit of this although I am sure he could do it all. My point was that tracing left tends to close the clubface relative to the target line (what MORAD refers to as CP)...tracing right has the clubface "open" to the target line thus increasing loft. So I guess the trip your sweetspot takes in relation to target line impacts...well...impact and the resulting launch angle. sorry for thinking out loud!
If I am understanding you correctly, you are rotating the plane line to alter shot shape.
I use the same procedure but explain it differently: The target is always the target. I try to aim the face where I want the ball to end up align my body where I want it to start. When my body is aimed left of target and I swing on plane relative to my body but leave the face aimed to the target I hit a cut shot. The opposite holds true for a draw.
I would tell you that when hitting into a strong wind, less spin is desired. I have the most success when I swing at a slower speed. The slower speed will produce lower launch with less spin which is ideal for strong wind. When you swing at full speed you will increase launch and spin, the wind will magnify this spin and may produce less than desirable results.
[quote=golfgnome;61091]If I am understanding you correctly, you are rotating the plane line to alter shot shape.
Yes. Path/plane relative to club face alignment = divergence = side spin
I use the same procedure but explain it differently: The target is always the target. I try to aim the face where I want the ball to end up align my body where I want it to start.
Does the ball leave the clubface at 90 degrees at seperation? If so, would I not want the clubface aiming where I want the shot to START? Then I would rotate the plane line accordingly
Pardon my whipper-snapping! I must have a mental block. I am willing and able to comply with how it really works! Afterall how often do I get to listen to a Machine Instructor, Master Club-fitter and a world class player! Understanding the face/path thing was huge for me...I will be crushed!
If I want to hit it low into the prevailing Oklahoma gale I close the clubface...then trace a plane line perpendicular to the closed face...I then rotatate the machine to the right so that although the face is still hooded it is aligned to the intended target...resulting in a pull...with a lower trajectory. Apparently Sam Snead did a bit of this although I am sure he could do it all. My point was that tracing left tends to close the clubface relative to the target line (what MORAD refers to as CP)...tracing right has the clubface "open" to the target line thus increasing loft. So I guess the trip your sweetspot takes in relation to target line impacts...well...impact and the resulting launch angle. sorry for thinking out loud! 
I must have a mental block. I am willing and able to comply with how it really works! Afterall how often do I get to listen to a Machine Instructor, Master Club-fitter and a world class player! 
Understanding the face/path thing was huge for me...I will be crushed! 
Hybrid Mode
