[brianid]

Im not Bucket (thank gosh) but ... Wow great stuff, effort.

Re point 4. 4,3,1,2 is impossible isn't it? The left arm can not separate from the chest without the right arm extending. Unless you redefine what is meant by #1... Some ,from other quarters , have done this . Ok by me, why not? My only problem is when some of those same guys turn around and say Homer therefor had it wrong. You can't judge him using a definition of things that varies from his own .



Also 3 before 2 would mean he was rolling a fully cocked left hand which is kind of un golf like and would make for an extremely early release given how much #2 angle he would be rolling.... the angle making for way more drag upon the rolling action. (This is something Homer discussed in the audio tapes .... minimizing #3 angle to encourage a later Release Point, Snap Release). Hogan had minimal #3 angle at Address , "high hands" or what we see as a nice set of Wedges .. he rolled a level left hand after a goodly amount of #2 uncocking. 2 before 3 with some overlapping ... (theres always a bit of overlap even when Release is Sequenced).

Great topic. Looking forward to others jumping in.

Regards
ob.

Yeah, sort of impossible. Yeah, PA1 is technically the release or straightening of the R elbow, correct? So yeah, if you do that you will get the upper L arm off the chest. Ok, got it. I stand corrected. That is why Hogan's R elbow is still so bent at impact than anyone. Will edit my List.

I guess it is a matter of intent vs reality. What you said is the Reality, I agree. But I also am saying that if we are to base it on Intent, I think it is just PA4 and PA3 simultaneously.

And yes, since there's a lot of PA3-angle at Downstroke, you have to release it early, very early. That is why I believe the simultaneous release of PA4 and PA3 should be immediately after Start Down. After the Drag Loading during Start Down, you just fire the hell out of PA4 and PA3.

I know when you fire PA4 and PA3 simultaneously Non-Automatically (intentionally), PA2 will always fire/release in the process. But I think it is possible to have an intent to release PA3 first before PA2. So, I think a PA4/PA3-PA2 sequence is possible. Yeah, it is hard, but it is possible, IMO. You gotta have a really strong Pivot, L Shoulder, and L arm firing through ala Dual Horizontal Hinge very early.

I like very much what you said about a huge PA2/PA3-angle still remaining making for way more drag upon the rolling action. It is really excellent basis for someone, or for Hogan for that matter, to adopt his supination and rolling intents. That drag will automatically limit or slow down the supination/rolling actions, especially on the ClubFace, without limiting or slowing down at all the ClubHead's speed/travel. So, you got ClubFace closing slower, but a ClubHead going faster.

Re PA2 releasing before PA3 on Hogan, I don't see this. I see him retaining his L wristcock almost 100%---his tremendous Lag. So, I see him Drag Loading while going down to Elbow Plane, in the process retaining L wristcock and his PA2-angle...then Hogan just releases the heck out of his PA4 and PA3. Of course, PA2 will also release due to CF acting on the ClubHead, otherwise he will whiff the ball, but I see this PA2 release as more of a consequence or by-product rather than a Cause or Intent.

Re later Release Point/Snap Release, I think we just see this in Hogan exactly because he doesn't release PA2 at all, I mean, Intent-wise.

I agree minimizing PA3-angle at Address should be RELEASED via a late Release Point/Snap Release. But, I don't think minimum PA3-angle ENCOURAGES or HELPS or will necessarily result to Snap Release. In fact, I think a minimum PA3-angle will ENCOURAGE or will FORCE you to release very early--Full Sweep Release. Why, because your PA2-angle on Top will WANT to release immediately as soon as the Backstroke finishes. It wants to "Bounce-out".

So, to release a minimum PA3-angle at Address, you really have to fight it out to prevent Full Release and obtain Snap Release. So why would we want that? Isn't it better to remove the the fact that we have to "fight it out"? Why not just adopt a maximum PA3-angle possible at Address ON A FULLY UNCOCKED L WRIST, so that you wouldn't have to fight out to prevent early Release so you can obtain Snap Release? Why not just let it Drag Load at Start Down, then intentionally FULLY RELEASE immediately after (Non-Automatic Random Sweep Release)? It is easier to do, and easier to time---consistency. The only problem is, you gotta be strong and have a really fast pivot because, as you said, you have to release really early. And since you are releasing already a bit late (after Start Down), you gotta recover "lost ground".