Im not Bucket (thank gosh) but ... Wow great stuff, effort.
Re point 4. 4,3,1,2 is impossible isn't it? The left arm can not separate from the chest without the right arm extending. Unless you redefine what is meant by #1... Some ,from other quarters , have done this . Ok by me, why not? My only problem is when some of those same guys turn around and say Homer therefor had it wrong. You can't judge him using a definition of things that varies from his own .
Also 3 before 2 would mean he was rolling a fully cocked left hand which is kind of un golf like and would make for an extremely early release given how much #2 angle he would be rolling.... the angle making for way more drag upon the rolling action. (This is something Homer discussed in the audio tapes .... minimizing #3 angle to encourage a later Release Point, Snap Release). Hogan had minimal #3 angle at Address , "high hands" or what we see as a nice set of Wedges .. he rolled a level left hand after a goodly amount of #2 uncocking. 2 before 3 with some overlapping ... (theres always a bit of overlap even when Release is Sequenced).
Great topic. Looking forward to others jumping in.
Im not Bucket (thank gosh) but ... Wow great stuff, effort.
Re point 4. 4,3,1,2 is impossible isn't it? The left arm can not separate from the chest without the right arm extending. Unless you redefine what is meant by #1... Some ,from other quarters , have done this . Ok by me, why not? My only problem is when some of those same guys turn around and say Homer therefor had it wrong. You can't judge him using a definition of things that varies from his own .
Also 3 before 2 would mean he was rolling a fully cocked left hand which is kind of un golf like and would make for an extremely early release given how much #2 angle he would be rolling.... the angle making for way more drag upon the rolling action. (This is something Homer discussed in the audio tapes .... minimizing #3 angle to encourage a later Release Point, Snap Release). Hogan had minimal #3 angle at Address , "high hands" or what we see as a nice set of Wedges .. he rolled a level left hand after a goodly amount of #2 uncocking. 2 before 3 with some overlapping ... (theres always a bit of overlap even when Release is Sequenced).
Great topic. Looking forward to others jumping in.
Regards
ob.
Yeah, sort of impossible. Yeah, PA1 is technically the release or straightening of the R elbow, correct? So yeah, if you do that you will get the upper L arm off the chest. Ok, got it. I stand corrected. That is why Hogan's R elbow is still so bent at impact than anyone. Will edit my List.
I guess it is a matter of intent vs reality. What you said is the Reality, I agree. But I also am saying that if we are to base it on Intent, I think it is just PA4 and PA3 simultaneously.
And yes, since there's a lot of PA3-angle at Downstroke, you have to release it early, very early. That is why I believe the simultaneous release of PA4 and PA3 should be immediately after Start Down. After the Drag Loading during Start Down, you just fire the hell out of PA4 and PA3.
I know when you fire PA4 and PA3 simultaneously Non-Automatically (intentionally), PA2 will always fire/release in the process. But I think it is possible to have an intent to release PA3 first before PA2. So, I think a PA4/PA3-PA2 sequence is possible. Yeah, it is hard, but it is possible, IMO. You gotta have a really strong Pivot, L Shoulder, and L arm firing through ala Dual Horizontal Hinge very early.
I like very much what you said about a huge PA2/PA3-angle still remaining making for way more drag upon the rolling action. It is really excellent basis for someone, or for Hogan for that matter, to adopt his supination and rolling intents. That drag will automatically limit or slow down the supination/rolling actions, especially on the ClubFace, without limiting or slowing down at all the ClubHead's speed/travel. So, you got ClubFace closing slower, but a ClubHead going faster.
Re PA2 releasing before PA3 on Hogan, I don't see this. I see him retaining his L wristcock almost 100%---his tremendous Lag. So, I see him Drag Loading while going down to Elbow Plane, in the process retaining L wristcock and his PA2-angle...then Hogan just releases the heck out of his PA4 and PA3. Of course, PA2 will also release due to CF acting on the ClubHead, otherwise he will whiff the ball, but I see this PA2 release as more of a consequence or by-product rather than a Cause or Intent.
Re later Release Point/Snap Release, I think we just see this in Hogan exactly because he doesn't release PA2 at all, I mean, Intent-wise.
I agree minimizing PA3-angle at Address should be RELEASED via a late Release Point/Snap Release. But, I don't think minimum PA3-angle ENCOURAGES or HELPS or will necessarily result to Snap Release. In fact, I think a minimum PA3-angle will ENCOURAGE or will FORCE you to release very early--Full Sweep Release. Why, because your PA2-angle on Top will WANT to release immediately as soon as the Backstroke finishes. It wants to "Bounce-out".
So, to release a minimum PA3-angle at Address, you really have to fight it out to prevent Full Release and obtain Snap Release. So why would we want that? Isn't it better to remove the the fact that we have to "fight it out"? Why not just adopt a maximum PA3-angle possible at Address ON A FULLY UNCOCKED L WRIST, so that you wouldn't have to fight out to prevent early Release so you can obtain Snap Release? Why not just let it Drag Load at Start Down, then intentionally FULLY RELEASE immediately after (Non-Automatic Random Sweep Release)? It is easier to do, and easier to time---consistency. The only problem is, you gotta be strong and have a really fast pivot because, as you said, you have to release really early. And since you are releasing already a bit late (after Start Down), you gotta recover "lost ground".
You can not change the order of the Power Accumulators .
In the audio tapes Homer discussed the false feel for power when rolling a bigger #3 angle on the lower planes. The increased Drag feeling more powerful than it really is. He also acknowledged that is often hard to persuade some who are attracted to this procedure to do otherwise . He described "physiological reasons" for letting golfers just enjoy that which they enjoy doing. "The game is supposed to fun after all".
However the physics of it remain unchanged. There is a story about how Lynn called up Homer to discuss the state of his game which had recently taken flight. "Im sending bullets out there". The last thing needed being a few more yards so Lynn could hit more par 5's. The two men discussed the machine adjustments necessary. Amongst other things Homer discussed delaying Release to Snap via the Aiming Point Procedure and of interest to you perhaps... a grip change in the left hand to reduce the #3 angle!! Less #3 angle , less drag upon #3 Rolling , less time required to roll #3 .... all promoting a later release and by design more power.
#2 is Velocity Power , #3 is Transfer Power. #3 angle is important and powerful but nothing compared to #2 for the Swinger. To forsake some #2 angle uncocking in the Release Interval to accommodate more (hefty) #3 angle would lead to a power loss.
For minor basic strokes or two accumulator strokes with no #2.... #3 angle can seem powerful and it is . Hence Homers advice to zero it for the short shots, to better regulate power .
However, what Homer said is true only if you are not strong or for couch-potatoes. The way I analyze it, the stronger you become, that false sense of power Homer pointed out will translate to reality. As you go stronger, the Clubhead speed becomes faster. In fact, there is no limit. The limit of your Strength is the same limit of your Clubhead speed. They're directly proportional to each other. And the bonus is, accuracy or the ClubFACE isn't affected. Why?
Well, relying on PA3 as Rotational Power is much much much more accurate because the ClubHead is coming more from a shallow Angle of Attack/Approach. Cleaner strike, more chance of hitting the ball with the Sweetspot. With PA2 Velocity Power, the Clubhead is coming more from the sky with a steeper AoA. With the lofts on the ClubFace, this makes hitting the ball with the Sweetspot substantially harder.
For a couch potato with no athletic ability yet, PA2 Velocity Power is an excellent option because it provides the most potential Clubhead speed out of the existing strength (or lack of it) of the golfer. Also, this maximum potential Clubhead speed can be accessed and poured out more easily. Why? Because, as you said, this is easier to Release. That Snap Release let that potential power out very easily.
However, for Accuracy, it is HARD. That is why Chipping and Putting is done on a flat and shallow AoA. Try Chipping and Putting with a more Vertical or Steep AoA and add PA2 and what I am saying can easily be understood.
For Hogan, who is very strong, his accuracy explains/proves this---the feasibility of PA3 Rotational Power accompanied by a strong and fast Pivot is another excellent way to swing that darn club.
So I propose or putting forward that a Power Package Combination of PA4/PA3/PA2 is possible for a Swinger. Maybe it is time for amateur golfers to be more consistent and accurate?...
Homer put special emphasis on the word ROLL , Its the only word capitalized and italicized in the whole mission critical check list of Homers greatest hits! Hmm that sounds kinda familiar for some reason.
Not rolling is often the missing ingredient in a golfers flail action due to Steering ... the face version that is. But despite the special emphasis , the order in which things occur does not change in a golfers flail or a hitters flail or a farmers flail for that matter. 2 before 3 or 2 and 3 together but never 3 then 2. Not saying you couldn't do it but that would involve a lot of manipulation to pull it off and would be a constant war against the automatic throw out of CF. Easier at lower speeds I guess but why the heck would you want to do that anyways??
In terms of power yes #3 is powerful but nowhere near as powerful as #2 for the swinger . Hmmm or 4B Hitter. Try hammering a nail (with a #2 like uncocking action) then try hammering a nail with a forearm roll (#3 like action) . Im betting on the former for power. The golfer uses them both .
Quote:
CHAPTER 12 STROKE PATTERNS
PAGE 223
12-3-0 MECHANICAL CHECKLIST FOR ALL STROKES .....
Section 6 – The Top.............
20. Delivery Line Prep
21. Delivery Line Uncocking Prep
22. DELIVERY LINE ROLL PREP
Homer put special emphasis on the word ROLL , Its the only word capitalized and italicized in the whole mission critical check list of Homers greatest hits! Hmm that sounds kinda familiar for some reason.
Not rolling is often the missing ingredient in a golfers flail action due to Steering ... the face version that is. But despite the special emphasis , the order in which things occur does not change in a golfers flail or a hitters flail or a farmers flail for that matter. 2 before 3 or 2 and 3 together but never 3 then 2. Not saying you couldn't do it but that would involve a lot of manipulation to pull it off and would be a constant war against the automatic throw out of CF. Easier at lower speeds I guess but why the heck would you want to do that anyways??
In terms of power yes #3 is powerful but nowhere near as powerful as #2 for the swinger . Hmmm or 4B Hitter. Try hammering a nail (with a #2 like uncocking action) then try hammering a nail with a forearm roll (#3 like action) . Im betting on the former for power. The golfer uses them both .
Thanks OB.
The Delivery Line Roll Prep, what does it really mean. As of now, I take it to mean that you should have in your mind where or the direction of the Roll by the time you get to the Top, at the latest. Is that correct? So it is a pure mind thing, and timing when you think of it?
The Delivery Line Roll Prep, what does it really mean. As of now, I take it to mean that you should have in your mind where or the direction of the Roll by the time you get to the Top, at the latest. Is that correct? So it is a pure mind thing, and timing when you think of it?
IMO its a visual guide line with (given the degree of inclination to the plane) an associated club head blur. A guide line for the Release of Accumulated Power. You have to know where to aim all that power.
Assuming Tracing and the arc of approach procedure.
At Top you should :
See the straight line Base Line
Mentally prepare to uncock down plane towards the base line .
Mentally prepare to Roll on plane, "down the line" and see the associated club head blur. The blurred arc of the club head's on plane path.
People tend to: Not uncock down the plane but forward on plane. Steer the face towards the hole. Steer the club head overtop of the straight line plane line...."covering the plane with the club head". All bad stuff geometrically. All very common. To change that you need to change your intentions.
So I propose or putting forward that a Power Package Combination of PA4/PA3/PA2 is possible for a Swinger. Maybe it is time for amateur golfers to be more consistent and accurate?...
Hogan started uncocking before rolling #3. He was 4/2/3.
Hogan started uncocking before rolling #3. He was 4/2/3.
MJ,
Didn't he maintained or kept PA2 unreleased during Start Down? PA3 is unreleased as well at Start Down, but I see him Rolling #3 first before uncocking #2 during Downstroke (after Start Down).
Can you provide illustrations/vids/pics of Hogan?
But in any case, I think it is better to just THINK release of #3 rather than THINK #2 first then #3 next.
Hybrid Mode
