Hey Loren. Glad you're hanging around, its great to have you here.
Does the Right Arm Throw fire 2 and 3 together , actively , directly or does it merely throw out #3, push the Left Wrist off the plane with CF pulling out #2? My Right Arm throw seems like #3 only in terms of work but of course theres some #2 . Im mean hitters do have some #2 right. If its a thrusting of 2 and 3 together , then how do you need to position your Right Elbow and grip to thrust on the aft and the top of the shaft at the same time? Or conversely , what about a Swinger who Rolls his Left Wrist off the Plane as a Trigger? A swinger with Simultaneous if you will. What pulls out his #2 angle if he's not firing it.
I dunno, always just thought of it as the pull of CF uncocking the #2 towards the plane line.
Sorry for the out of left field questions. That wild mushroom salad Bucket made me has me feeling all weird.
I am flattered, O.B.
We are so totally done with Mike Austin. Iron Mike is exhausted.
Yes, it does.
Just as the folding right arm raises the left arm and cocks the left wrist, the straightening right arm lowers the left arm and uncocks the left wrist.
Likewise, the straightening right arm controls the roll to vertical wrists for impact.
So uncocking and rolling are all done with one motion. The hitter is especially susceptible to throwaway and must start slowly and get the right shoulder and elbow closer to the ball before release.
The left arm is inert. It's the right forearm that must be thrown or driven back to its attitude and elbow bend set up at impact address fix.
Swinger or hitter.
This has nothing to do with plane angle.
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If it's a thrusting of 2 and 3 together , then how do you need to position your Right Elbow and grip to thrust, on the aft and the top of the shaft at the same time?
TGM is not concerned with positions, just dynamic alignments. The right elbow location is a result of the loading, the right arm for a hitter, the left wrist for a swinger. And this is explained by hinge action, left wrist perpendicular to the ground or perpendicular to the plane. Of course you can't carry either one in the backswing all the way to the Top without doing ungolflike motions, so the pivot turns the Flying Wedge to the proper loading attitude depending on intent. The swinger does optionally does it on purpose.
Some pressure points are for monitoring and others are for pressuring against. #1 for the hitter is for thrusting against both the left arm and the shaft, aft. The lag pressure is felt aft by the hitter, never on top, in the #3 pressure point, or any combination of pressure points you choose.
The only grip that will preserve the Flying Wedges is the 10-2-B strong single action. FLV left, BLV right, left thumb aft, palm grip right on top of left thumb in lifeline of right palm, which puts the forearm on plane with the shaft. This is in impact fix address.
Hitters optionally choose (Yoda does) 10-2-D Strong Double Action which is Turned left wrist (to top), Vertical right wrist, thumb aft. This puts wrist cocking motion in line with the right wrist bend to give extra cocking feel to the hitter. Any left wrist bend at address must be preserved throughout.
Also especially useful for cut shots. (Straight vertical hinge action.)
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what about a Swinger who Rolls his Left Wrist off the Plane as a Trigger? A swinger with Simultaneous if you will. What pulls out his #2 angle if he's not firing it?
"Laying off the shaft" is not a release trigger, it's a dynamic alignment. Release is much later and is the out-of-line accumulators being allowed to seek their in-line conditions. The laid off shaft will seek an in-line condition in time.
It has advantages in prevention or mitigating effects of OTT, conveying the idea that we're really swinging and not steering at the ball, and maintaining the flat left wrist at least until roll time and discouraging early release when you roll too soon trying to go at the target by straightening the right arm and CF bends the left wrist.
In my opinion, just as CF uncocks the left wrist for a swinger, CF also rolls the hands to vertical for impact. If not the straightening right arm on a leash by the inert left arm will control the roll with its automatic pronation due to that action. In my opinion, just because we've turned onto plane we have to be rolled into impact and that has to be sequential release.
I also like Mike Austin's turn of the entire left arm from a muscle at the top of the shoulder, which preserves the attitude of the left wrist instead of arching it.
In the case of the snap release, we're not delaying the wrist uncocking with opposing forces in the hands, we're delaying the roll by keeping the right palm up against the backside of the plane longer and keeping the right arm from straightening.
1-L-15 says, paraphrased, basically that regardless of what the clubhead is doing, the thrust must be continued down plane to both arms straight.
"Laying off the shaft" is not a release trigger, it's a dynamic alignment. Release is much later and is the out-of-line accumulators being allowed to seek their in-line conditions.
Nice stuff. I was referring to the 10-20-E Non Auto Throw , the Roll of the Left Wrist off the plane as a trigger deal. What mechanism or force (cf?) uncocks #2 angle. Right Arm straightening , the check rein? Ok sure but what about guys who dont use Extensor Action or have two bent arms? Im thinking CF pulls out #2 but Ive never heard mention of it anywhere. I do employ EA and the Check Rein personally though.
Say you're in Downstroke heading to your Release Point , left wrist laying flat to plane and then you rotate the Left Wrist off the plane............given any wrist cock or #3 angle, absent of something that'll uncock the left wrist (mechanical or cf) wouldnt the club head move above plane from a DTL perspective? But it doesnt I dont think.
Nice stuff. I was referring to the 10-20-E Non Auto Throw , the Roll of the Left Wrist off the plane as a trigger deal. What mechanism or force (cf?) uncocks #2 angle. Right Arm straightening , the check rein? Ok sure but what about guys who dont use Extensor Action or have two bent arms? Im thinking CF pulls out #2 but Ive never heard mention of it anywhere. I do employ EA and the Check Rein personally though.
Say you're in Downstroke heading to your Release Point , left wrist laying flat to plane and then you rotate the Left Wrist off the plane............given any wrist cock or #3 angle, absent of something that'll uncock the left wrist (mechanical or cf) wouldnt the club head move above plane from a DTL perspective? But it doesnt I dont think.
Start another thread. This one under Mike Austin won't get the visibility and participation it deserves.
You can't get your accumulator releases out of order.
Sure, that's one common OTT malfunction.
CF alone uncocks the left wrist for the swinger.
The shoulders' acceleration has to fall off in order to transfer momentum to the next accelerating component, arms and then hands. The right arm can't straighten until the hands (left arm) leave the right shoulder.
Notice Mike Austin's impact position. Hips and shoulders are open about equally. He hit the wall by keeping his center of mass between the feet, at least in the downswing.
10-20-E is an automatic trigger with right palm up to the plane until release. If you trigger the hands' roll to vertical before the end of the delivery line it's non-automatic.
Normally used in conjunction with a Shoulder Throw or Right Arm Throw.
What does it? Right arm straightening or CF.
Hands ahead at impact is not a release it's an aiming point and Lag, which doesn't have a release point. Everything has been released at that point, but not all accumulators are empty then either.
Use 10-20-D instead. Lynn "You really don't do yourself any favors by trying to delay the release to maximum." or something like that. Tomasello "Unfortunately people hold on too long."
Components 20 and 24 have to be used in conjunction.
"Snap releases can be either wrist uncock or hands roll or both." 10-24
Quoting Homer "Much of the mystery of the golf swing disappears when right arm participation is understood. Swinging or hitting the left arm is always swinging and the right arm is always driving." It's a question of degree, primacy, dynamic alignments and rhythm.
I just think Mike Austins throw is more Homer than people realize. Sure seems familiar to me.
Originally Posted by Loren
CF alone uncocks the left wrist for the swinger.
Homer says that yes but is he talking true swinging again as opposed to manipulated hands swinging? And wouldnt "cf alone" rule out a Non Auto Left Wrist Throw as Lynn describes it? In 10-24-B Homer say "....the deliberate manipulation of Release (Non Automatic Trigger)....". "Deliberate manipulation" doesnt seem to square with "CF alone" to my mind. Now the manipulation is in the same direction as CF would throw out so CF takes over after being triggered, for the Swinger.
Same deal happens in 6-H-0 where he is really talking True Swinging vs Drive Loading not Swinging general vs Hitting general I believe. Gotta be careful with "hitting" and "swinging". 12-1 is a type of Hitting not Hitting general, Manipulated Hands Swinging is not True Swinging etc etc.
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"Snap releases can be either wrist uncock or hands roll or both." 10-24
"Or both" ? Did Homer really say that? Wouldnt that imply Sequenced and Simultaneous at the same time? They are mutually exclusive arent they?
Definitions again. Got to make sure we have our apples and oranges separated so we can have a meaningful discussion. Somewhere along the line a lot of people started to think TGM was all about true swinging , auto snap release. Homer himself didnt play that way , he preferred Hitting or Manipulated Hands Swinging. Looks to me like maybe Mike Austin is Manipulated Hands Swinging , Non Auto Left Wrist Throw , Delayed Random Sweep Release. Nice pattern. His intention is to uncock (velocity power) it as hard as he can and then Roll. Mass times velocity squared. But I could be out to lunch again.
I just think Mike Austins throw is more Homer than people realize. Sure seems familiar to me.
Homer says that yes but is he talking true swinging again as opposed to manipulated hands swinging? And wouldnt "cf alone" rule out a Non Auto Left Wrist Throw as Lynn describes it? In 10-24-B Homer say "....the deliberate manipulation of Release (Non Automatic Trigger)....". "Deliberate manipulation" doesnt seem to square with "CF alone" to my mind. Now the manipulation is in the same direction as CF would throw out so CF takes over after being triggered.
Same deal happens in 6-H-0 where he is really talking True Swinging vs Drive Loading not Swinging general vs Hitting general I believe. Gotta be careful with "hitting" and "swinging". 12-1 is a type of Hitting not Hitting general, Manipulated Hands Swinging is not True Swinging etc etc.
"Or both" ? Did Homer really say that? Wouldnt that imply Sequenced and Simultaneous at the same time? They are mutually exclusive arent they?
Definitions again. Got to make sure we have our apples and oranges separated so we can have a meaningful discussion. Somewhere along the line a lot of people started to think TGM was all about true swinging , auto snap release. Homer himself didnt play that way , he preferred Hitting or Manipulated Hands Swinging. Looks to me like maybe Mike Austin is Manipulated Hands Swinging , Non Auto Left Wrist Throw , Delayed Random Sweep Release. Nice pattern. His intention is to uncock (velocity power) it as hard as he can and then Roll. Mass times velocity squared. But I could be out to lunch again.
Well, O.B., it's been fun. I'm exhausted and signing off.
I went over today and got bored real quick,may need to have a rest.
So,I thought with the last few balls in the bag,I swung ALA Austin,(i hope),too shorten the story ,the balls (6ir)hit smooth as silk,so,as the heading states,there is magic somewhere,may have too take vid and looksee....
As a matter of interest,ever thought how the most natural thing to do is to "flip",could it be he found a way of putting the flip to good use,he did say somewhere that he maintained FLW or near to it at impact,but the R/wrist still unbent post impact radically or to that effect
I went over today and got bored real quick,may need to have a rest.
So,I thought with the last few balls in the bag,I swung ALA Austin,(i hope),too shorten the story ,the balls (6ir)hit smooth as silk,so,as the heading states,there is magic somewhere,may have too take vid and looksee....
As a matter of interest,ever thought how the most natural thing to do is to "flip",could it be he found a way of putting the flip to good use,he did say somewhere that he maintained FLW or near to it at impact,but the R/wrist still unbent post impact radically or to that effect
Yeah. Mike Dunaway demonstrated that. It's baloney. Put it outta your mind.
Loren,in your opinion,where did Austin get his length,thanks again
His arms. Leaving the hands at the right shoulder as long as possible, right shoulder down, maybe adding right arm thrust on entry to the release area (bottom of the hands path where they take a left turn, reverse J), kinesiology, laying off the shaft at the top on the way down, training as a boxer, superb physical specimen, torso and shoulders.
Excellent timing. I don't attribute much power to the secret compound pivot except in support of tempo, timing, balance and clearance, the alignment it provides and it's easy on the body.
Management of centrifugal force. Precise measurement to the ball at address with no wrist cock. Forward press to check it and feel like the swing is already in motion. It's in his wheelhouse.
"Anywhere in the swing the navel (center of mass) precedes the chin by about 4-6 inches." Mike Dunaway "Get off that right knee to get the shoulder down, and put the hands about mid-right thigh."
Lots of buckets of balls. "If it isn't talkin' to you you haven't swung it." MA
We can shortcut that with educated hands.
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