Still not sold on this full power business....but that's OK...
I know. Thats why I wrote "for any given hand speed". The "advantage" to an earlier Simultaneous Non Auto Random Sweep Release (right arm or roll the left wrist throw) you looking for maybe that most golfers can swing harder, get the hands going faster. Go full Arnie on it with the Right Arm for instance.
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to you uncocking #2 left wrist throw....do you not agree that this motion is also occurring in a simultaneous release?
Simultaneous will have 2 and 3 going at the same time yes. Some guys get 2 then 3 overlapping. To me the difference is in the Throw employed , Left Wrist , Right Arm etc . The intention is different , they feel different, they are different , different Throws and different flails. For Simultaneous you could assume that 12-3 becomes . Delivery Line uncocking and roll prep. One sentence. The on line uncocking with the left wrist or right palm held flat to plane followed by a Roll is different. Most golfers dont stumble onto it given Steering , the perception that you have to get that face off the plane and square to the ball early. In Sequenced , Snap ....that face is laying on the plane late, its wide open so to speak. Takes some getting used to , like diving off the high board. You can hit a few hozzle rockets while learning it as the shaft and sweetspot are inline late. Uh...didnt they say Hogan hit the odd shan% ? Which is why he designed the little heal on his irons under the shaft. Id say most guys just Throw a Roll off the plane and the uncocking happens on its own, Simultaneous be it Hitting or Swinging. I did that for sure. You can play some good golf that way. Really good golf. Swinging like that can feel very right sided as the Right Forearm Wedge takes a load after the Random Sweep Release. The move to hitting can be a small one for those guys.... was for me.
Homer thought that CF sequenced was not subject to the Slowing Effect of Lever Extension....... whereas hitting simultaneous was (but the hitter can thrust harder too). Must say Im a little foggy on that business.
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In your "left wrist throw" the left thumb is releasing a in a different direction to the plane line for sequenced vs. simultaneous....but the club is thrown out in both cases...but the sweetspot makes a different motion.
Yup two types of throwout. One where the clubhead moves outside the hands when viewed caddy (uncocking ) during Radial acceleration. The other when the clubhead moves outside the Hands as seen DTL (rolling). Both can be Triggered by a Non Auto Throw, which is similarly aligned to what CF on its own would produce.
But I dont think the Sweetspot moves off the Plane Angle for Simultaneous as the pull of CF holds it down if you know what I mean. Im assuming youre talking about Simultaneous pushing the sweetspot above the plane angle? I wonder about that but I dont see it in video from DTL .... CF pulls, undoes the #2 angle keeping the sweetspot on the plane. Got my lab coat here, goggles, pocket protector .... Can you see the sweetpot on a golfer with a Right Arm throw moving off the plane or above the plane from DTL?
I'm proud that Lynn allows discussion of other teachers methods. Clearly, there are MANY ways to play the game, and it's fun to study them all! There are many who follow Mr. Austin, I understand he was very long. Others are also trying to teach that "optimal" swing for distance, ultimately you have to play the whole game, not just create optimal numbers for a tee shot.
That being said, the pictures that scare me on that post are the ones where he is asking that we get our head over our right foot on the back stroke. That one really scares me Brownman. I have become a HUGE believer in the stationary pivot. Not left and more left, but rather the stationary pivot created by the MacDonald Exercises with a little Trolio mixed in.
There is a lot of discussion on other forums right now about what causes the full swing yips, and in my case, the driver yips were cured by getting back to a stationary pivot and the principles and foundation of The Golfing Machine. I would be afraid to get away from those Brownman.
If it is working for you, GREAT. You gotta ride that horse until she bucks you off. If she does, you know what foundation you need to get back to!
Cheers,
Kevin
Please ignore Mr. Austin's chin and redraw the lines from the 'nape of the neck' (the 'Swivel Point' of the Stationary Head). [TGMers see 1-L#2.] Doing this, his Head -- and Golf Stroke -- will be found quite centered.
thank you Loren all good,even when we look into wrong swing thoughts ......we still learn...so long as we dont get bogged down,we never stop learning do we
Please ignore Mr. Austin's chin and redraw the lines from the 'nape of the neck' (the 'Swivel Point' of the Stationary Head). [TGMers see 1-L#2.] Doing this, his Head -- and Golf Stroke -- will be found quite centered.
Lesson learned. Bad lines and bad angle. I'll not trust others pictures without study in the future.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
I know. Thats why I wrote "for any given hand speed". The "advantage" to an earlier Simultaneous Non Auto Random Sweep Release (right arm or roll the left wrist throw) you looking for maybe that most golfers can swing harder, get the hands going faster. Go full Arnie on it with the Right Arm for instance.
Simultaneous will have 2 and 3 going at the same time yes. Some guys get 2 then 3 overlapping. To me the difference is in the Throw employed , Left Wrist , Right Arm etc . The intention is different , they feel different, they are different , different Throws and different flails. For Simultaneous you could assume that 12-3 becomes . Delivery Line uncocking and roll prep. One sentence. The on line uncocking with the left wrist or right palm held flat to plane followed by a Roll is different. Most golfers dont stumble onto it given Steering , the perception that you have to get that face off the plane and square to the ball early. In Sequenced , Snap ....that face is laying on the plane late, its wide open so to speak. Takes some getting used to , like diving off the high board. You can hit a few hozzle rockets while learning it as the shaft and sweetspot are inline late. Uh...didnt they say Hogan hit the odd shan% ? Which is why he designed the little heal on his irons under the shaft. Id say most guys just Throw a Roll off the plane and the uncocking happens on its own, Simultaneous be it Hitting or Swinging. I did that for sure. You can play some good golf that way. Really good golf. Swinging like that can feel very right sided as the Right Forearm Wedge takes a load after the Random Sweep Release. The move to hitting can be a small one for those guys.... was for me.
Homer thought that CF sequenced was not subject to the Slowing Effect of Lever Extension....... whereas hitting simultaneous was (but the hitter can thrust harder too). Must say Im a little foggy on that business.
Yup two types of throwout. One where the clubhead moves outside the hands when viewed caddy (uncocking ) during Radial acceleration. The other when the clubhead moves outside the Hands as seen DTL (rolling). Both can be Triggered by a Non Auto Throw, which is similarly aligned to what CF on its own would produce.
But I dont think the Sweetspot moves off the Plane Angle for Simultaneous as the pull of CF holds it down if you know what I mean. Im assuming youre talking about Simultaneous pushing the sweetspot above the plane angle? I wonder about that but I dont see it in video from DTL .... CF pulls, undoes the #2 angle keeping the sweetspot on the plane. Got my lab coat here, goggles, pocket protector .... Can you see the sweetpot on a golfer with a Right Arm throw moving off the plane or above the plane from DTL?
Simultaneous is #3 and #2 going "simultaneously" so it therefore to me stands to reason that the sweetspots relationship to the plane is going to be inherently different....to me sequenced has the sweetspot laying on the play much longer than simultaneous...to me the release types produce distinctly different motions with regards to the sweetspot, right elbow, clubface, spine and shaft.
Simultaneous is #3 and #2 going "simultaneously" so it therefore to me stands to reason that the sweetspots relationship to the plane is going to be inherently different....to me sequenced has the sweetspot laying on the play much longer than simultaneous...to me the release types produce distinctly different motions with regards to the sweetspot, right elbow, clubface, spine and shaft.
Im with ya on everything except the laying on the plane longer, not sure what you mean there. So lets say you have two swings both on the same plane angle. Both with the same Release Point. One Simu one Sequenced , the Sequenced one throws out #2 down the plane with the Right Hand staying flat to Plane , no shift necessary. What the Simultaneous version throws out #3 with a Right Hand Throw say talking Hitting , #2 throws out as well via the pull of C.F. and the sweetpot on the face of the plane starts to face the ball, rotates with the Left WRist as it comes off the plane.......Is there necessarily a plane shift to your mind?
Im with ya on everything except the laying on the plane longer, not sure what you mean there. So lets say you have two swings both on the same plane angle. Both with the same Release Point. One Simu one Sequenced , the Sequenced one throws out #2 down the plane with the Right Hand staying flat to Plane , no shift necessary. What the Simultaneous version throws out #3 with a Right Hand Throw say talking Hitting , #2 throws out as well via the pull of C.F. and the sweetpot on the face of the plane starts to face the ball, rotates with the Left WRist as it comes off the plane.......Is there necessarily a plane shift to your mind?
Just trying to follow you.
No sir......what I'm saying is due to #3 inherently releasing earlier in simultaneous that the ClubFACE will simply have a different alignment that sequenced. That being looking at the ball earlier in the downstroke. No plane shifting...same plane just different motion of the face due to the definition of the release....in turn effecting HOW the sweetspot is released in space, the hinge motion, right elbow alignment AND PIVOT. I'm not saying that Sequenced is off plane just that the motion of the face and basic elbow position are different which in turn impacts other components in the chain of events.
No sir......what I'm saying is due to #3 inherently releasing earlier in simultaneous that the ClubFACE will simply have a different alignment that sequenced. That being looking at the ball earlier in the downstroke. No plane shifting...same plane just different motion of the face due to the definition of the release....in turn effecting HOW the sweetspot is released in space, the hinge motion, right elbow alignment AND PIVOT. I'm not saying that Sequenced is off plane just that the motion of the face and basic elbow position are different which in turn impacts other components in the chain of events.
Gotta ya and agreed. Just making sure Im following.
Hey Loren. Glad you're hanging around, its great to have you here.
Does the Right ARm Throw fire 2 and 3 together , actively , directly or does it merely throw out #3, push the Left Wrist off the plane with CF pulling out #2? My Right Arm throw seems like #3 only in terms of work but of course theres some #2 . Im mean hitters do have some #2 right. If its a thrusting of 2 and 3 together , then how do you need to position your Right Elbow and grip to thrust on the aft and the top of the shaft at the same time? Or conversely , what about a Swinger who Rolls his Left Wrist off the Plane as a Trigger? A swinger with Simultaneous if you will. What pulls out his #2 angle if he's not firing it.
I dunno, always just thought of it as the pull of CF uncocking the #2 towards the plane line.
Sorry for the out of left field questions. That wild mushroom salad Bucket made me has me feeling all weird.
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