Have you ever seen a Pre-Stressed Golf Shaft going into Impact?
Daryl,
ok your quoting out of the book, So next question how do you achieve all this? Physics training the body to create the right physics.
Of course I have seen a pre stressed shaft, I've worked with some top line golfers and also some world class golfers and taught them how to create shaft flex all the way to impact using pure physics.
Even taught myself how to do it myself.
we put sensors on the shaft and can tell you in which direction force is moving at the ball x,y and z. x is at the ball, y is up and down, z towards or away from your body.
I've seen tons of data with people without a pre stressed shaft and taught these people how to load the shaft and maintain shaft flex.
I can tell you how they achieve and can tell you why people can't achieve shaft flex. Again easy answer all to do with having good physics or not.
Regardless the theory isn't even important , what is important is how to train and teach people how to achieve physics. Which is what I do.
Maybe someone could post a video of a functional swing where the hands do not slow down at/towards impact? I've been looking at the tube and I can't find one, certainly happens for Norman, Woods, Hogan, Ogilvy, Gay etc etc from what I can tell, even without state of the art measuring equipment.
Maybe Newton never played so his laws don't apply here?
Here is one of a hundred available. Look at Tiger on swings where he uses a sit-down procedure. Look at Sam Snead. Look at Ben Hogan. Look at any golfer using a Sit-Down procedure. That's the Tip off of a Sequenced Pivot. Following the sit-down is a Hip Rotation which drives the right shoulder, which drives the left shoulder, which pulls the left arm wedge through impact. Don't look at Freddy Couples (Circle path).
ALSO: Look for pro's that move their heads slightly to the right during the Backstroke and tend to keep it there. They are keeping weight on the right side and using ground pressures to crank the Hips around.
Swinging with the Right Arm off the club will help train a sequenced pivot. Learn to move the Left Arm Wedge with your Pivot. Don't move the club with arm or shoulder muscles. It's also enlightening to find that swinging with the Right Hand only on the Clubshaft, that your right arm is helpless unless you can lock the elbow into a stiff lever. Even then, the Right Shoulder has too much play to handle the power applied by the Hip Action. But, Both arms together, with Extensor action, (Power Package) can be violently Propelled with little physical effort. The Hands can direct all of this force.
When your Pivot can Power the Swing this way, you will no longer have "Blackout" during the Downstroke. When the Arms and Hands no longer apply any force to move the Hands, you will imediately sense the Tracing of the #3 Pressure Point. You will immediately begin to keep the #3 pressure Points relationship with the Plane Line. Educated Hands. Hands Controlled Pivot.
You will Float load, Drive Load, Drag Load at will. You'll hit draws or fades with the slightest Plane line, target line and stance line manipulations.
Watch Ben Doyle. All Pivot. Sequenced Pivot, super Hip Action. But he never tells you "How to". Ben thinks that everyone already knows. Ben says: "Load it, Store it, and then Shoot it". And people stand there and listen but are a little shy to ask: "What do you mean by "Shoot it"?
I love Greg's Swing. He talks about constant motion and swinging faster will make you swing slower. I know I have stood behind Ben Doyle with my hand on his shoulders and they seem to be in a constant smooth motion. So.....
Feels are certainly different from reality.
I enjoy bio's contributions but here in the mountains of the carolinas I have no access to experts. So as I do forearm takeaway to the top I do not need to concern myself with anything but loading 2 and 3. Now once I am near top I need to create just the right amount of stretch in my shoulders when I reverse direction and sit down. I do not need to torque up my shoulders on the backswing. Now once I am sitting down balanced and "centered" as Ben says the shoulders will unwind and my hands will go down and foward releasing what I have stored shooting or throwing out at the ball. Now to get to finish and catch the dog by the tail I have to get the shoulders around and foward ending up on balance over my left foot. Now hopefull you biomechanic boys can tweek this with your knowledge. Certainly you can distill it down to a few paragraphs. I am a physician and even though you said it would take 50 pages, certainly you could distill it down for us. Greg teachs students constant motion. Lynn teaches karate chop, taking out the plane line, throw down and out from the wrist. All of these thoughts have worked well for me. Because i am intense I tend to overdo. that is why the SCC stuff you mention resonates. You can't squat to low to jump best. You can't over torque on the back swing. You can't hold the contraction too long etc.
I love Greg's Swing. He talks about constant motion and swinging faster will make you swing slower. I know I have stood behind Ben Doyle with my hand on his shoulders and they seem to be in a constant smooth motion. So.....
Feels are certainly different from reality.
I enjoy bio's contributions but here in the mountains of the carolinas I have no access to experts. So as I do forearm takeaway to the top I do not need to concern myself with anything but loading 2 and 3. Now once I am near top I need to create just the right amount of stretch in my shoulders when I reverse direction and sit down. I do not need to torque up my shoulders on the backswing. Now once I am sitting down balanced and "centered" as Ben says the shoulders will unwind and my hands will go down and foward releasing what I have stored shooting or throwing out at the ball. Now to get to finish and catch the dog by the tail I have to get the shoulders around and foward ending up on balance over my left foot. Now hopefull you biomechanic boys can tweek this with your knowledge. Certainly you can distill it down to a few paragraphs. I am a physician and even though you said it would take 50 pages, certainly you could distill it down for us. Greg teachs students constant motion. Lynn teaches karate chop, taking out the plane line, throw down and out from the wrist. All of these thoughts have worked well for me. Because i am intense I tend to overdo. that is why the SCC stuff you mention resonates. You can't squat to low to jump best. You can't over torque on the back swing. You can't hold the contraction too long etc.
Dave,
In Physics there is theory which I have been speaking of.
Theory is the understanding. Essentially what is important is how do you put the theory into practice.
As I have said previously is how do you train the body how to create the physics.
First step is to be tested to find out what your movement patterns are. Then you can build a program to train your how to create the right movement patterns.
I can continue to speak about theory for ever although people still won't be able to apply this in practice. It's not something you can go to the practice fairway and try to achieve.
You need to be given a program to train your body how to create the right movement patterns.
I speak to guys about TGM, they know the book exceptional well, but in practice they can't break a 100. Listen to them speak they sound like they can break par.
What is important is learning how to train your body how to put the theory into practice.
Dave,
In Physics there is theory which I have been speaking of.
Theory is the understanding. Essentially what is important is how do you put the theory into practice.
As I have said previously is how do you train the body how to create the physics.
First step is to be tested to find out what your movement patterns are. Then you can build a program to train your how to create the right movement patterns.
I can continue to speak about theory for ever although people still won't be able to apply this in practice. It's not something you can go to the practice fairway and try to achieve.
You need to be given a program to train your body how to create the right movement patterns.
I speak to guys about TGM, they know the book exceptional well, but in practice they can't break a 100. Listen to them speak they sound like they can break par.
What is important is learning how to train your body how to put the theory into practice.
Now that I break Par on a regular basis I have less misery. Breaking par has always been a milestone and millstone for people.
With TGM it's been a guided struggle and I feel confident each time I play. I don't wonder how I'll be hitting the ball that day or If I'll have my "A" game. My best game this year is five straight birdies. I've only had one Eagle in my life when the ball hit the cup from 60 yards.
Up till about a year ago, every Hole was a scramble but I still posted a respectable score. Now that my swing is 100 times better than it was two years ago, I don't consider the big difference to be the scoring, but the lack of scrambling and absence of struggle. It's just a different game all together than two years ago. Two years ago, the best I would score was a 79 and the worst an 84. Today the best I'll score is a 69 and the worst a 75. So I think that a Swing which I know is 100 times better is giving me an average of ten less strokes per round. I even think differently on the course today. I play some tough courses but from only 6900 yards. Recently I played some courses in Michigan at 7400 yards and didn't notice a big difference concerning the Yardage.
I will probably not be striking the Ball any better than I do today. My chipping (which is great) could save me another stroke per round, and if I make all putts (my putting is great too) within 12 feet I'll save another 5 strokes. I hit 85% of the Fairways and almost as many greens. I only drive the Ball 250 yards. So, I figure I need to improve 100 times more. That's not going to happen.
The big difference between 2 years ago and today, is Knowledge. And, a some trial and error. It seems like I've learned a little more with each year (theory, then application) and I've finally ran through all twenty-four components and then some. I've been learning what seems to be a lot these past two months, but I don't expect to shoot a 60 any time soon.
I wish I could point to one or two changes that made a big difference but I can't. But if could say anything that would make sense to others it would be that my Pivot does the work and my hands are finesse even on my longest drives. Oh, and I lost a lot of weight.
Most of TGM folks I know are improving. I certainly have. I am currently a 6.7 handicap 70 years old with significant arthritis and two artificial knees. I feel I will continue to improve as I hone my basic and acquired motion. It appears bio mechanic knowledge, training and information will remain elusive for me. I frankly feel all I need is the help I get from Lynn Blake Jeff Hull and this forum. This provides me with the practical knowledge that I can take to the range and then on to the course. My "chickens" are hatching and I feel comfortable that I will shoot my age soon
Daryl, slow motion might be easier to see the deceleration, at that speed pretty hard to see whats going on though it for sure looks like a fine swing!
I think here we need to be careful about terminology? Bio says the hands decelerate, you say there is constant motion. Well both can be correct? A car can slow down at an intersection but not stop, constant motion with deceleration?
We might be arriving at feel not real?
Feel; constant motion, all parts moving through to finish.
Real; conservation momentum, hips fire, torso, arms etc in a 'kinetic' link of energy/acceleration being transferred to the ball.
I've sat a looked at much of Bio's data from many great swings, the measurements (speed of hips, arms, club butt, club head, top speed, speed at impact, angles of spine and more!) are there in black and white (well many colors really)
I believe this stuff can work wonders in conjunction with the mechanics of TGM, they need not be mutually exclusive and I don't believe Bio thinks they are either. I have learned heaps from TGM and now with Bio I have a chance to apply the mechanics to an engine that is firing on all cylinders! (not a sales pitch )
Still, I'm a learner and loving this thread, thanks.
Dave,
I speak to guys about TGM, they know the book exceptional well, but in practice they can't break a 100. Listen to them speak they sound like they can break par.
WOW, did you really say that out loud?
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Dave,
In Physics there is theory which I have been speaking of.
Theory is the understanding. Essentially what is important is how do you put the theory into practice.
As I have said previously is how do you train the body how to create the physics.
First step is to be tested to find out what your movement patterns are. Then you can build a program to train your how to create the right movement patterns.
I can continue to speak about theory for ever although people still won't be able to apply this in practice. It's not something you can go to the practice fairway and try to achieve.
You need to be given a program to train your body how to create the right movement patterns.
I speak to guys about TGM, they know the book exceptional well, but in practice they can't break a 100. Listen to them speak they sound like they can break par.
What is important is learning how to train your body how to put the theory into practice.
Bio . . . Once a student is through with the process of learning the motions you prescribe . . . do they have their "own" pivot and hand path . . .. or are there "optimal" or "model" check points you are looking for?
Also . . . . what do you think about Mr. Kelley's concept of a centered pivot? And do you subscribe to a particular Plane Angle? Or is that an option?
so his laws don't apply here?
Ben thinks that everyone already knows. 
Linear Mode
