If the base of the Triangle represents the OUT . . . then how do you have to work your shoulders inorder to get the club to comply with the plane angle and amount of OUT IN THE PLANE??? ON BOTH SIDES DOWN AND THRU???
My guess at the money would be that the shoulders for the ball that is further from the feet would need to work more "out" and on a flatter plane. More out and less down. This may also create more axis tilt and a more "open" shoulder alignment at impact. The ball flight would tend to be a bit lower. That's my final answer.....let me know if and where I can pick up the "ka-ching"
Go borrow that dowel from your cute lil' boo boo in your avatar . . . . take you hands extreme high . . . . leave them at top and start down with your body . . . take your hands extreme low. . . .leave them there . . . start down with your body.
OK. The flatter plane reflects a longer baseline and more level shoulder movement. Conversely, the upright plane is a shorter baseline and more tilted shoulder movement. The turned shoulder plane probably lies in between these two extremes for most of us. I have that. The pivot - if a kinetically linked movement from the ground up, happens very rapidly as a stretch-shorten muscle move. Now I am stuck. What are you getting at from here, Bucks?
OK. The flatter plane reflects a longer baseline and more level shoulder movement. Conversely, the upright plane is a shorter baseline and more tilted shoulder movement. The turned shoulder plane probably lies in between these two extremes for most of us. I have that. The pivot - if a kinetically linked movement from the ground up, happens very rapidly as a stretch-shorten muscle move. Now I am stuck. What are you getting at from here, Bucks?
You are on it . . . just so we make sure we got it . . .
What part of the pivot makes the club go OUT?
What part of the pivot makes the club go DOWN?
Talk to me about the requirements for steep plane vs. flat plane.
AND talk to me about how the hands have to exit to maintain the plane without a shift in the plane line.
EXIT STAGE LEFT? STAGE RIGHT? OUT THRU THE EAR HOLE? NECK? SHOULDER? MID SECTION? How doe the shoulders and tilt help you with the EXIT?
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 02-13-2008 at 10:48 AM.
That would be the press forward coming from the feet through the legs to the hips causing the right shoulder to drop. Note: I mean forward press in the pivot as in press and turn, not any move that starts the swing.
What part of the pivot makes the club go out?
That would be after the initial forward press. The turn of the left hip away from the plane line allowing the right side to move through impact with the club moving out toward the plane line prior to impact.
I am not sure at all about requirements for steep vs. more flat plane, other than setup and player preference I reckon. I am guessing that the flatter plane swinger could set up with the trunk of his body more erect than the steeper plane player, but of course I see players take it back on one plane and then go straight up with the club, a la Tom Watson. Your turn, Bucks.
That would be the press forward coming from the feet through the legs to the hips causing the right shoulder to drop.
What part of the pivot makes the club go out?
That would be after the initial froward press. The turn of the left hip away from the plane line allowing the right side to move through impact with the club moving out toward the plane line prior to impact.
I am not sure at all about requirements for steep vs. more flat plane, other than setup and player preference I reckon. I am guessing that the flatter plane swinger could set up with the trunk of his body more erect than the steeper plane player, but of course I see players take it back on one plane and then go straight up with the club, a la Tom Watson. Your turn, Bucks.
TURN = OUT & FORWARD . . . (also GOING FORWARD = FORWARD and HANGING BACK = DOWN)
TILT = DOWN
What if Nicklaus kept his right shoulder higher early in the down stroke, had less tilt, and got open quicker? What would the club do? Relate to length of the Right Triangle Base Line?
Obviously Nicklaus' hands go high at the top . . . where do they go when they exit? Do his arms look "tied" or connected to his body?
Now compare that to Hogan's hands at top and where the exit . .. what are the differences?
This is AWESOME . . . watch the hand paths where the hands go when the go UP PLANE vs. where they are at delivery.
There are two really good comparisons . .. watch where Sergios hands go compared to Vijay. Watch Annika's hands they match . . . some start high exit low and left . . . some deliver low and exit high.
Pretty cool video. It would be neat to be able to freeze frame these. Watch the hand paths and respective tilts/pivots . . . think about what kind of ball flight you would get with these.
Can you save crap off of Youtube? I'd love to be able to figure out how to freeze frame these.
Pay attention when Palmer pops up . . . exits low . . . hips back chest forward. Watch Sergio next . . . hips forward but exit left and low with big shift. Watch Vijay . . . High Top Drop & EXIT HIGH.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 02-13-2008 at 11:39 AM.
TURN = OUT & FORWARD . . . (also GOING FORWARD = FORWARD and HANGING BACK = DOWN)
TILT = DOWN
What if Nicklaus kept his right shoulder higher early in the down stroke, had less tilt, and got open quicker? What would the club do? Relate to length of the Right Triangle Base Line?
Nicklaus swing would be shallower with those changes. The right triangle base line would be longer.
I am also not sure how you monitor or control TILT other than video.
The YouTube video is a good one. But after this analysis, I am still not sure what you want or mean when this post started......please lead on, Bucks.
(I notice most of the usual suspects are on the sidelines in this thread. Not a good sign for yours truly.)
TURN = OUT & FORWARD . . . (also GOING FORWARD = FORWARD and HANGING BACK = DOWN)
TILT = DOWN
[b]What if Nicklaus kept his right shoulder higher early in the down stroke, had less tilt, and got open quicker? What would the club do? Relate to length of the Right Triangle Base Line?./B]
Nicklaus swing would be shallower with those changes. The right triangle base line would be longer
Let me ask my above question again in another way . . .
If we stop Nicklaus at the Top (hands high the whole bit) . . .and say dude . . . don't tilt as much open up more . . . what does the club do?
I'm not sure how to measure tilt . . . I'm just basically saying what you tell a person to do with pivot depends very much on their plane angle. So if you told Nicklaus to do the above . . . would it work?
Believe it or not, Bucket, I am still not seeing it.
If you hold Nicklaus' right (rear) shoulder up longer. not allowing it to go down steeply, and told him not to tilt his torso so much toward the ground, it seems to me that his swing goes out more and down not as much, hence "shallower", which is what I thought I already tried to say.
Believe it or not, Bucket, I am still not seeing it.
If you hold Nicklaus' right (rear) shoulder up longer. not allowing it to go down steeply, and told him not to tilt his torso so much toward the ground, it seems to me that his swing goes out more and down not as much, hence "shallower", which is what I thought I already tried to say.
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OK . . . do this for yourself . . . Stand up . . . golf posture. Take your hands up as high and vertical as you can Nicklaus, Rory, Hoch . . . UP . . .
You are going to see how to stay ON THAT STEEP PLANE . . . ON PLANE Right?
OK now that your hands are REALLY HIGH . . . Make a startdown by Opening your SHOULDERS . . . . ARE YOU ON PLANE?
Now do the same thing and TILT EARLY . . . How did that work out?
Now take your hands LOW AND DEEP like Hogan . . . Now start down by Tilting early . . . ARE YOU ON PLANE? Now Spin OPEN? How did that work?
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