Again....TGM....Whipcracking 9-2 (reference the #6 DVD of the new Tomasello video series). 6-B-2-0 The Second Power Accumulator....muscles of both forearms....are available to actuate this Assembly. "Homer Kelley".
I work for Boeing as did Homer.....we do lots of testing. No data probably means exactly that...no 3-D technology test of a forearm type swing.
You all might be disappointed.....on the new DVD series, Tomasello still holds firmly that a swing that starts with the lower body is not desirable. Why might you ask....more potential for error. Tomasello even references Jack Nicklaus as hitting bad shots due to a lower body swing.
I recommend all of the doubters attempt to get a copy of the #6, #9 and #10 DVD's there is some really good stuff on there....Tomasello talking about the skins game and the players putting their own money on the line is classic...now, I'll listen to something like that....good story telling and humorous.
I'm done...
Back to regular programming...
DG
Until Boeing opens a bio-mechanics lab, these things will be left to us to decipher.
Firstly, I think I've seen you use this Whipcracking reference in other posts. If you want to continue using the reference, I think you should use the words that follow in parentheses and refer to the Whipcracking as DRAG LOADING as Homer did. Seemingly, this would be an important, but convenient, thing to leave out.
Secondly, you get so hung up on what Tommy said, so I'm going to get hung up on a little bit of Homer.
6-B-2-0....It’s the true Velocity Accumulator because of the shortness of its travel time (during a Maximum Delay Release). Centrifugal Force, Accumulator #1, the muscles of both forearms, any – or all – are available to actuate this Assembly.
It seems that the release was Delayed, and how did it get to release? Yes, the Pivot. THEN the muscles of both forearms could actuate the Assembly.
6-B-4-A MAXIMUM POWER is obtained by using maximum On Plane Shoulder Turn Thrust against Pressure Point #4 per 7-19, and maximum Swing Radius (6-B-0).
Homer must have forgotten to include those Magical Forearms in the above passage. Maybe it will be in the 8th edition.
6-K-0 PIVOT STROKE DELIVERY In a “Pivot Stroke” the Power Package is held in a fixed relationship with the Body Turn and no independent Arm motion occurs until – or unless – the requirements of the selected Pivot are met. Then Arm Motion, independently or not, Continues Delivery per 10-19 until the selected Trigger occurs (10-20).
6-M-1 DOWNSTROKE SEQUENCE The Downstroke sequence of the Stroke Components is dictated essentially by Centrifugal Force; "Overtaking" by a Lagging Component ends at the instant it achieves an “In-Line” position with its immediately preceding Component.
Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered, and timed as the players understanding and skill permit. But the Club’s Swing Radius (6-B-0) ends at the “non-lagging” Component nearest to the Clubhead. The “Centers” of the Stroke start with the Feet or the employed Component nearest to the feet in the following order: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation. For maximum Power, the position of must be taken that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.
Power Accumulators Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 – regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it. Increase Overlap to increase THRUST – decrease Overlap to increase Velocity.
So, it seems that #2 cannot precede #4. Although we could contact TGM, LLC and have them strike 6-K-0 and 6-M-1 from the book and replace it with what Tommy said.
Lastly, I have friends in high places that would LOVE to get your TT forearm stroke on 3-D motion analysis to see the speed that's produced. And, we can make that happen.
Tommy failed to connect the dots on this subject and we have to accept that and move on...
New DVD's have not arrived here yet but does he contradict anything in the Australian videos for example during Tomasello’s demonstration on the pivot he says.
“Since we don’t have any arms to start the down swing – lower your right shoulder. When you lower your right shoulder watch how your left hip slides laterally towards the target without you attempting to do anything to it.”
In the Arms video he says : ”The first thing to do is connect. Now what will happen is your left hip will respond to this motion by starting to move out of the way.”
This is reminiscent of Harvey Penick’s “Magic move” “ To start your downswing, let your weight shift to your left foot while bringing your right elbow back down to your body. This is one move, not two”
Are they both saying the same thing? i.e. when you lower your right shoulder does that bring your right elbow back to your body thus causing your left hip to slide laterally which shifts your weight to your left foot. All of which is accomplished as one move?
Is this simply two perspectives of the one action and is he consistent in his new tapes?
Until Boeing opens a bio-mechanics lab, these things will be left to us to decipher.
Firstly, I think I've seen you use this Whipcracking reference in other posts. If you want to continue using the reference, I think you should use the words that follow in parentheses and refer to the Whipcracking as DRAG LOADING as Homer did. Seemingly, this would be an important, but convenient, thing to leave out.
Secondly, you get so hung up on what Tommy said, so I'm going to get hung up on a little bit of Homer.
6-B-2-0....It’s the true Velocity Accumulator because of the shortness of its travel time (during a Maximum Delay Release). Centrifugal Force, Accumulator #1, the muscles of both forearms, any – or all – are available to actuate this Assembly.
It seems that the release was Delayed, and how did it get to release? Yes, the Pivot. THEN the muscles of both forearms could actuate the Assembly.
6-B-4-A MAXIMUM POWER is obtained by using maximum On Plane Shoulder Turn Thrust against Pressure Point #4 per 7-19, and maximum Swing Radius (6-B-0).
Homer must have forgotten to include those Magical Forearms in the above passage. Maybe it will be in the 8th edition.
6-K-0 PIVOT STROKE DELIVERY In a “Pivot Stroke” the Power Package is held in a fixed relationship with the Body Turn and no independent Arm motion occurs until – or unless – the requirements of the selected Pivot are met. Then Arm Motion, independently or not, Continues Delivery per 10-19 until the selected Trigger occurs (10-20).
6-M-1 DOWNSTROKE SEQUENCE The Downstroke sequence of the Stroke Components is dictated essentially by Centrifugal Force; "Overtaking" by a Lagging Component ends at the instant it achieves an “In-Line” position with its immediately preceding Component.
Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered, and timed as the players understanding and skill permit. But the Club’s Swing Radius (6-B-0) ends at the “non-lagging” Component nearest to the Clubhead. The “Centers” of the Stroke start with the Feet or the employed Component nearest to the feet in the following order: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation. For maximum Power, the position of must be taken that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.
Power Accumulators Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 – regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it. Increase Overlap to increase THRUST – decrease Overlap to increase Velocity.
So, it seems that #2 cannot precede #4. Although we could contact TGM, LLC and have them strike 6-K-0 and 6-M-1 from the book and replace it with what Tommy said.
Lastly, I have friends in high places that would LOVE to get your TT forearm stroke on 3-D motion analysis to see the speed that's produced. And, we can make that happen.
Tommy failed to connect the dots on this subject and we have to accept that and move on...
Ted,
Ask Lynn to make you a copy of the new Tomasello DVDs, go through them two or three times....then we'll talk. Just quoting passages from the book...for me it's not enough. Listen to Tommy talk about TGM...this new set of DVDs has Tommy in rare form (pro to pro level instead of pro to amatuer student level). With somebody at your level of understanding of TGM it's definitely worth watching. Trust me...Tommy had it down and then some....I don't know anybody who was in more contact with Homer than Tommy (especially at the end)....maybe Ben Doyle....maybe some local pros who lived near Homer. But, I don't know anyone who had the TGM school concept together like Tommy....no one.
Sure you can tape my swing....it will have to be in late June or July at the earliest. I'm preparing for a CFA exam (Chartered Financial Analyst) (no time for golf)....ask Lynn, he knows about the CFA, it's like preparing for Tour school, maybe worse!!!
Ted....in some of your comments above....I know you don't understand what Tommy taught...I think it's because you don't have a full handle on swinging. That's ok....please get a copy of the Tomasello DVDs...you will definitely benefit from it. Tommy was in a different league than most instructors...these videos demonstrate it.
Dave "DG"
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 02-14-2008 at 02:03 AM.
Maybe Tommy ditched school the day Homer was teaching "Power Release Accumulator Sequence". The topic does sound kind of scary. And he does have that "bad boy" type image...all that smoking and cussing and use of four letter words. Then he got lucky and it wasn't a question on the final exam.
New DVD's have not arrived here yet but does he contradict anything in the Australian videos for example during Tomasello’s demonstration on the pivot he says.
“Since we don’t have any arms to start the down swing – lower your right shoulder. When you lower your right shoulder watch how your left hip slides laterally towards the target without you attempting to do anything to it.”
In the Arms video he says : ”The first thing to do is connect. Now what will happen is your left hip will respond to this motion by starting to move out of the way.”
This is reminiscent of Harvey Penick’s “Magic move” “ To start your downswing, let your weight shift to your left foot while bringing your right elbow back down to your body. This is one move, not two”
Are they both saying the same thing? i.e. when you lower your right shoulder does that bring your right elbow back to your body thus causing your left hip to slide laterally which shifts your weight to your left foot. All of which is accomplished as one move?
Is this simply two perspectives of the one action and is he consistent in his new tapes?
You're getting confused with a drill with the right shoulder and a golf swing with a Shoulder Turn Throw. Tommy taught both. That should be cleared up with the new DVDs.
You're getting confused with a drill with the right shoulder and a golf swing with a Shoulder Turn Throw. Tommy taught both. That should be cleared up with the new DVDs.
New DVD's have not arrived here yet but does he contradict anything in the Australian videos for example during Tomasello’s demonstration on the pivot he says.
“Since we don’t have any arms to start the down swing – lower your right shoulder. When you lower your right shoulder watch how your left hip slides laterally towards the target without you attempting to do anything to it.”
In the Arms video he says : ”The first thing to do is connect. Now what will happen is your left hip will respond to this motion by starting to move out of the way.”
This is reminiscent of Harvey Penick’s “Magic move” “ To start your downswing, let your weight shift to your left foot while bringing your right elbow back down to your body. This is one move, not two”
Are they both saying the same thing? i.e. when you lower your right shoulder does that bring your right elbow back to your body thus causing your left hip to slide laterally which shifts your weight to your left foot. All of which is accomplished as one move?
Is this simply two perspectives of the one action and is he consistent in his new tapes?
Yes, TT is consistent and adament about the right shoulder lowering in getting the right elbow down in front of the right hip in the new DVDs.
Nothing inconsistent that I noted with the Australian series. But I have only watched about 25% of the content. He also said the shoulder move is not the only way to do it, but it is a move that can be consciously triggered. He seemed to have liked teaching the swinging motion this way, but he kept repeating "There are other ways to do it!"
I hope this tides you over till you can judge for yourself!
Yes, TT is consistent and adament about the right shoulder lowering in getting the right elbow down in front of the right hip in the new DVDs.
Nothing inconsistent that I noted with the Australian series. But I have only watched about 25% of the content. He also said the shoulder move is not the only way to do it, but it is a move that can be consciously triggered. He seemed to have liked teaching the swinging motion this way, but he kept repeating "There are other ways to do it!"
I hope this tides you over till you can judge for yourself!
UPP in cold Ohio
The bottom line is the right shoulder has to move on plane in the downswing...whether you're using the arms to start the club down or if you use a shoulder turn throw trigger.
Ask Lynn to make you a copy of the new Tomasello DVDs, go through them two or three times....then we'll talk.
No need. I got them the same time as everyone else, and I paid full price to help with the costs.
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
Just quoting passages from the book...for me it's not enough.
I know that it's unreasonable to confuse the issue with the facts.
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
Ted....in some of your comments above....I know you don't understand what Tommy taught...I think it's because you don't have a full handle on swinging. Dave "DG"
Come on, DG! That's rich! I have Swingers that have won at all levels, juniors, Tour, etc. It must be because of my confusion with Swinging. Lynn's really had some trouble getting people to Swing, too. In almost 100 hours of Homer audio, he failed to mention the TT Magic and the forearms starting the Downstroke. I'm sure it was just an oversight.
I know the moment Homer died, that Tommy was in a rant about Hitting. So, it sounded as if he had no "handle" on Hitting.
__________________
Yoda knows...and he taught me!
For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.
Last edited by YodasLuke : 02-14-2008 at 09:39 AM.
In almost 100 hours of Homer audio, he failed to mention the TT Magic and the forearms starting the Downstroke. I'm sure it was just an oversight. 
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