The above quote is done via the #3 pressure point. Here is the crude explanation i.e. the normal method broken out for analysis. Before you get to the top or end of your backstroke- you start the effort to move the club back to the ball with the hands first, but that doesn't stop the backward movement of the arm/club, so other muscles/tendons come into play, for a full shot- this "flow" to stop the club from moving back moves from the hand, to arm, through the body to the feet- with the feet being the last supporting brace to help stop the backward movement of the club- so while the club is finalizing the backward movement- the mind has already started the downswing, and the body has helped stop that backward motion. And the load that you sense via the #3 pressure point- acknowledges all of that lag through the body, acknowledges that swing radius, and acknowledges the length of that moment of inertia arm, I.E. the feel of the load at #3 would feel different if you hadn't created that kind of pivot lag. To retain that kind of pressure/understanding that #3 has, means essentially you have to retain that pivot lag, that swing radius. If all of sudden your lower body stops- say because you subconsciously or consciously knew that the initial direction that you started down with would cause you to miss the ball- then you instantly shorten your swing radius- and instantly have throwaway- you just can't shorten your radius like that and possibly accelerate enough to retain the lag. An example of that would be the following: Imagine you've got this 20 foot heavy board- that you've swung back and now are swinging forward around a corner- you've loaded it going back and now you accelerating it around the corner with the lag pressure that you loaded throughout your body- but the basic awareness of that is in your hands- now all of a sudden - some magical force cuts that board down to 3 feet long- because of the shorter radius- it speeds up so quickly and it disrupts the motion so much that you just can't help but lose the lag pressure of the board. That's similar to the throwaway situation if you lose pivot lag suddenly.
Mike O.
Mike,
In the above quote you have done a fantastic describing "the hands controlled pivot."
How would you "fix" someone that loses Pivot Lag and thus loses the sensitivity in the #3 pressure point? What is the best way to patch the tire without pumping it up every morning?
How does one halt the Backstroke with the Hands/Mind effectively?
I think you are on the essence of things here. Super job!
...But my point that I made in the third paragraph of my post above- was made for that very reason- that you've got other issues that are not being performed correctly or get in the way of performing a hand controlled pivot....
I agree with you 100% brother! I have NO doubt what you are saying is true in my case.
The sad truth is I'm mostly left to my own devices, the book, and this forum to improve myself. We have no AI's here in Austin. Despite being site admin here I only see Yoda about once per year.
Given that - I try to make things work the best way I can so I can get that ball in the hole!
Hand Controlled Pivot- The essence of the Golfing Machine
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
Mike,
In the above quote you have done a fantastic describing "the hands controlled pivot."
How would you "fix" someone that loses Pivot Lag and thus loses the sensitivity in the #3 pressure point? What is the best way to patch the tire without pumping it up every morning?
How does one halt the Backstroke with the Hands/Mind effectively?
I think you are on the essence of things here. Super job!
B
You could patch it yourself, take it to a Mechanic, put on the spare, buy a new tire,buy a new car..... wait you were just using that as analogy, let's get back to golf- which isn't too much different-
1) It's not easy to "fix" that for your own game, with all of your feel and awareness, let alone teach someone to repair that issue. For me, that's an important starting point- that some of these applications are and can be elusive, so I'm not sure I could fix it.
I would use everything available. Realizing the two essentials, if the geometry is off or if the physics loading/acceleration is off- then you're going to have a problem. How's the structure? Is anything un-golf like? Are you supporting the load at the top (7-3)? It's a puzzle for sure! Are you "just" focusing/isolating the feel of #3- and ignoring everything else?- If you are- I think that could be a problem and cause of not having pivot lag- you've got a wealth of sensations flooding through on that "canvas", you're not ignoring them- you're just putting them in their proper hieracrchial order- that is the hands control the shaft, head, face- so make sure you know what's going on there- the other feels, sensations are a result of that movement or goal of hitting the ball and are also important.
How does one halt the Backstroke with the Hands/Mind effectively? I think that pretty much happens. But all of the above really applies.
Tong,
Don't have my book with me- Therefore would like to address the 7-17 quote and the 6-B-0 quote simultaneously- as they really cover the same general topic. (I'll look at the 6-M-1 quote another time).
In regards to the 7-17 quote- here would be the common "mis-read"- "Gee, sounds like I really want to make sure that I concentrate on the feet- specifically resisting the backward motion of the body with the feet- something like the X factor", "and then make sure that the I concentrate on the feet leading the downstroke. And this mis-read in regards to the Golfing Machine is common- in that as Homer describes the mechanical functioning of the machine parts- that happen- or are a result of something else- and all of a sudden the person is trying to perform this and that.
Taking a brief break for a paragraph here- it's important to understand a couple of key perspectives here- 1) The perspective of the ideal procedure for the movement and 2) Understanding those things that you are temporarily working on in order to make the machine function better. Those are two separate issues and must always be understood in their proper context. More often than not - what people work on becomes their procedure- and that difference between the ideal procedure and changing the movement is never clearly defined. Here's a non- golfing example. Let's say that the proper procedure for operating a car is to 1) Get in, 2) turn on the ignition with the key, 3) press on the gas peddle while steering the wheel. Now, let's say that Trig (hey, Trig I had to use somebody! ) get's up get's in the car- goes through the procedure and the car doesn't speed up very much (i.e. doesn't hit the ball very far say), he gets out - notices that the front left tire is low- takes the pump out and fills the tire up and takes off. Next day gets in the car - goes through the procedure- car doesn't speed up, gets out and sure enough needs to fill up the tire again- and Trig - not being very bright- finally understands the problem - the procedure for driving his car is to 1)Fill up the tire every morning (slide the hips), 2) Get in, 3) turn on the key, 4) press on the gas peddle while steering the wheel. Now, you would say - that's ridiculuous- I know Trig and he is a sharp guy- and he would obviously realize that his tire had a leak- and would get the tire fixed- he wouldn't make that part of his procedure. But human movement and our understanding of it is minimal- and therefore that's exactly what so many players do all the time, they add things to their procedures that are non-essential or items that they are working on- become their procedure. Because it's not so easy to see or understand the problem in a golf movement as it is with operating your car.
Anyway, back to the 7-17 quote and the proper "read":
"Halting the Backstroke motion with the Feet and letting this same tension pull the Downstroke through Impact is “swinging form the Feet” and gives the Stroke maximum Swing Radius."[/b]
The above quote is done via the #3 pressure point. Here is the crude explanation i.e. the normal method broken out for analysis. Before you get to the top or end of your backstroke- you start the effort to move the club back to the ball with the hands first, but that doesn't stop the backward movement of the arm/club, so other muscles/tendons come into play, for a full shot- this "flow" to stop the club from moving back moves from the hand, to arm, through the body to the feet- with the feet being the last supporting brace to help stop the backward movement of the club- so while the club is finalizing the backward movement- the mind has already started the downswing, and the body has helped stop that backward motion. And the load that you sense via the #3 pressure point- acknowledges all of that lag through the body, acknowledges that swing radius, and acknowledges the length of that moment of inertia arm, I.E. the feel of the load at #3 would feel different if you hadn't created that kind of pivot lag. To retain that kind of pressure/understanding that #3 has, means essentially you have to retain that pivot lag, that swing radius. If all of sudden your lower body stops- say because you subconsciously or consciously knew that the initial direction that you started down with would cause you to miss the ball- then you instantly shorten your swing radius- and instantly have throwaway- you just can't shorten your radius like that and possibly accelerate enough to retain the lag. An example of that would be the following: Imagine you've got this 20 foot heavy board- that you've swung back and now are swinging forward around a corner- you've loaded it going back and now you accelerating it around the corner with the lag pressure that you loaded throughout your body- but the basic awareness of that is in your hands- now all of a sudden - some magical force cuts that board down to 3 feet long- because of the shorter radius- it speeds up so quickly and it disrupts the motion so much that you just can't help but lose the lag pressure of the board. That's similar to the throwaway situation if you lose pivot lag suddenly.
So I may have rambled, may have got off the subject- but it's a big area of study- hoped something helped or answered the question. Don't mind if you ask more or bring it back to a specific focus- if it's on point and helps clarify this concept that we are discussing.
Mike O.
Great post there Mike.
It was fantastic in differentiating what happens independently and what happens as a result of another action.
The feet are the movable parts of the swinger being in contact with the stationary ground. It seems that the friction between the shoes and the ground enables the counter force (against the force exerted by the pivot through the feet) from the ground to be transferred through the feet all the way up through the pivot to the shoulders, which drive the arms.
I'm not sure if making a swing is possible when standing on a rotary office chair, which takes that friction out of play.
So, it seems that you want to pull or push against something with the hands, yet the body moves from the ground up first.
__________________ Yani Tseng, Go! Go! Go! Yani Tseng Did It Again! YOU load and sustain the "LAG", during which the "LAW" releases it, ideally beyond impact.
"Sustain (Yang/陽) the lag (Yin/陰)" is "the unification of Ying and Yang" (陰陽合一).
The "LAW" creates the "effect", which is the "motion" or "feel", with the "cause", which is the "intent" or "command".
"Lag" is the secret of golf, passion is the secret of life.
Think as a golfer, execute like a robot.
Rotate, twist, spin, turn. Bend the shaft.
The feet are the movable parts of the swinger being in contact with the stationary ground. It seems that the friction between the shoes and the ground enables the counter force (against the force exerted by the pivot through the feet) from the ground to be transferred through the feet all the way up through the pivot to the shoulders, which drive the arms.
Ben Hogan's golf shoes were custom made for him in England by the Maxwell Shoe Company. They had twelve spikes instead of the normal eleven.
The extra spike was located under the inside ball of each foot.
Ben Hogan's golf shoes were custom made for him in England by the Maxwell Shoe Company. They had twelve spikes instead of the normal eleven.
The extra spike was located under the inside ball of each foot.
There was a reason for that.
Only with the feet rooted in the ground can the clubhead feel as though it is "left behind" whether it is dragged or driven downplane. Then and only then can the myriad of other things "happen" that produce solid, compressed, and predictable golf shots. Much, much, more, but linking the extremities, hands, feet, and head, well...magic can result!
The feet are the movable parts of the swinger being in contact with the stationary ground. It seems that the friction between the shoes and the ground enables the counter force (against the force exerted by the pivot through the feet) from the ground to be transferred through the feet all the way up through the pivot to the shoulders, which drive the arms.
I'm not sure if making a swing is possible when standing on a rotary office chair, which takes that friction out of play.
So, it seems that you want to pull or push against something with the hands, yet the body moves from the ground up first.
"All non-symetrical body movements are reflected in reaction forces- that is, forces of support from the ground on which one stands." Sven Carlsoo- Dept of Anatomy- Stockholm Sweden
Because of the rotary nature of the golf swing- you've got tremendous reaction forces going on- so I understand that issue, but I guess I'm unsure of the essence of your post- could you clarify. Specifically, these two sections:
1) "from the ground to be transferred through the feet all the way up through the pivot to the shoulders, which drive the arms"- If you were to end the first paragraph before this section- I follow it completely- but this last section throws me and I just need you to clarify exactly what your saying.
2) "it seems that you want to pull or push against something with the hands, yet the body moves from the ground up first"
By clarifying the above two sections- I may be able to understand the third thing I was uncertain of- but just in case, I'll ask it here ahead of time- Did you disagree with something in my previous post? I think so, but was not 100% sure.
Ben Hogan's golf shoes were custom made for him in England by the Maxwell Shoe Company. They had twelve spikes instead of the normal eleven.
The extra spike was located under the inside ball of each foot.
There was a reason for that.
Lynn,
Nice addition- In line with Ben Hogan's custom made golf shoes- is a study completed by the Biomechanics lab at The Pennsylvania State University- It was published in the Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, Vol. 15, No. 3, pp. 247-255, 1983, where they study ground reaction forces and make several suggestions for shoe design including cleat placement and cleat inclination, among other things.
In addition, quoting from their article:
"The interaction between a golf shoe and the ground is the vital link that allows a golfer to perform the series of body movements during the swing that lead to impact with the ball. Because the movements of the body segments create ground reaction forces at the feet, the study of this interaction provides a unique opportunity to investigate the mechanical conditions existing during the swing."
Only with the feet rooted in the ground can the clubhead feel as though it is "left behind" whether it is dragged or driven downplane. Then and only then can the myriad of other things "happen" that produce solid, compressed, and predictable golf shots. Much, much, more, but linking the extremities, hands, feet, and head, well...magic can result!
EC
EC,
Didn't want to leave you out of some response! I just want to know when we can play- as I would love to get in that wallet of yours my friend! On second thought- no need to post to this- I already know your answer- and I'm meekly trodding back to my hole!
, let's get back to golf- which isn't too much different- 
) get's up get's in the car- goes through the procedure and the car doesn't speed up very much (i.e. doesn't hit the ball very far say), he gets out - notices that the front left tire is low- takes the pump out and fills the tire up and takes off. Next day gets in the car - goes through the procedure- car doesn't speed up, gets out and sure enough needs to fill up the tire again- and Trig - not being very bright- finally understands the problem - the procedure for driving his car is to 1)Fill up the tire every morning (slide the hips), 2) Get in, 3) turn on the key, 4) press on the gas peddle while steering the wheel. Now, you would say - that's ridiculuous- I know Trig and he is a sharp guy- and he would obviously realize that his tire had a leak- and would get the tire fixed- he wouldn't make that part of his procedure. But human movement and our understanding of it is minimal- and therefore that's exactly what so many players do all the time, they add things to their procedures that are non-essential or items that they are working on- become their procedure. Because it's not so easy to see or understand the problem in a golf movement as it is with operating your car.
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