What the heck is Hook Face ? There's more to this than first meets the eye I believe. Two correct answers perhaps. Multiple answers perhaps . Anybody got some yoda posts on the matter? Mike O made some good observations recently on the matter. Can we try to simplify or would that be wrong? Can it be drawn? Might take two drawings one for each concept ?
What the heck is the Straight Away position?
I'm sure "Mike O" will contribute when he's released from Rehab.
This is important.
Hook Face is built into the design of all golf clubs. Neutral Hookface describes the Standards of the Golf Club. When Aligned to its Lie Angle, Shaft in a Vertical Plane and leading Edge Square to the Target line, a Ball will rebound along the Target Line. And, the Face will predictably Close at a specific ratio. That's the simple part. It's the Alignment relationship between the Longitudinal COG of the Club and the Clubface Alignment. The Club-maker sets Hook-Face at Neutral at Low Point.
What does Hookface Do? It determines how fast the Toe overtakes the Heel of the Club. The shorter the club, the more vertical the Plane, the more vertical plane, the Faster the Rotation. This is the Heart of the Right Forearm Angle of Approach.
How does it do that? Get a "Pitching Wedge." Square the Club at Low Point, then Raise the Handle up about 20 degrees and move closer to the ball. Notice that the Clubface is now aligned to the right of the target but the leading edge remained Square. Rotate the grip Counterclockwise until the face is square to the Target (don't care about the leading Edge). We already know that the Toe and Heel rotate around the COG of the Club but NOW it will do so faster and require less motion than when the club was at its neutral Hookface Alignment. YOU changed the geometry of the golf club to one with a faster closing Clubface.............Play the Ball from Low-Point with all this added Hookface and you'll Hook the Ball off the Planet because the Clubface will have way too much rotation for that Impact Interval Length! But, play the ball 6" back and the widened Angle of Approach is just right for that amount of rotation. We're taking the difference between 1/2 vs. 3/4 degree.
What's the big deal? Because when we play the ball back, and steepen the Plane (Geometry of the Circle), Hinge Action can Sustain the Line of Compression from Impact to Separation.
Ya, we can hit a straight shot when playing the ball back 6".
Play the Ball back,
steepen the Plane by moving the Ball in toward your Stance Line,
Add Hookface,
grip it and rip it.
So, this is a lesson in TGM. Using the Right Forearm Angle of Approach, Geometry of the Circle, Taking advantage of a Golf Clubs inherent Hook Face design, so that Hinge Action can sustain the Line of Compression.
"The Hinge Action of an Angular Motion on an Inclined Plane". It kinda takes on added meaning?
Last Thing
Moving the Ball Back along the Plane Line and adding Hookface is a waste of time unless all you want to do is add divergence. It will do that well too. Creating divergence by moving the ball away from the Clubhead Orbit, then mis-align the Clubface to compensate then spend a year in therapy/Rehab with "Mike O".
I'm sure "Mike O" will contribute when he's released from Rehab.
This is important.
Hook Face is built into the design of all golf clubs. Neutral Hookface describes the Standards of the Golf Club. When Aligned to its Lie Angle, Shaft in a Vertical Plane and leading Edge Square to the Target line, a Ball will rebound along the Target Line. And, the Face will predictably Close at a specific ratio. That's the simple part. It's the Alignment relationship between the Longitudinal COG of the Club and the Clubface Alignment. The Club-maker sets Hook-Face at Neutral at Low Point.
What does Hookface Do? It determines how fast the Toe overtakes the Heel of the Club. The shorter the club, the more vertical the Plane, the more vertical plane, the Faster the Rotation. This is the Heart of the Right Forearm Angle of Approach.
How does it do that? Get a "Pitching Wedge." Square the Club at Low Point, then Raise the Handle up about 20 degrees and move closer to the ball. Notice that the Clubface is now aligned to the right of the target but the leading edge remained Square. Rotate the grip Counterclockwise until the face is square to the Target (don't care about the leading Edge). We already know that the Toe and Heel rotate around the COG of the Club but NOW it will do so faster and require less motion than when the club was at its neutral Hookface Alignment. YOU changed the geometry of the golf club to one with a faster closing Clubface.............Play the Ball from Low-Point with all this added Hookface and you'll Hook the Ball off the Planet because the Clubface will have way too much rotation for that Impact Interval Length! But, play the ball 6" back and the widened Angle of Approach is just right for that amount of rotation. We're taking the difference between 1/2 vs. 3/4 degree.
What's the big deal? Because when we play the ball back, and steepen the Plane (Geometry of the Circle), Hinge Action can Sustain the Line of Compression from Impact to Separation.
Ya, we can hit a straight shot when playing the ball back 6".
Play the Ball back,
steepen the Plane by moving the Ball in toward your Stance Line,
Add Hookface,
grip it and rip it.
So, this is a lesson in TGM. Using the Right Forearm Angle of Approach, Geometry of the Circle, Taking advantage of a Golf Clubs inherent Hook Face design, so that Hinge Action can sustain the Line of Compression.
"The Hinge Action of an Angular Motion on an Inclined Plane". It kinda takes on added meaning?
Last Thing
Moving the Ball Back along the Plane Line and adding Hookface is a waste of time unless all you want to do is add divergence. It will do that well too. Creating divergence by moving the ball away from the Clubhead Orbit, then mis-align the Clubface to compensate then spend a year in therapy/Rehab with "Mike O".
Is this an "TGM "SWEETSPOT" PHYSICS" explanation or another theory that I don't follow well?
The force of the Impact will hold the ball against the face of the orbiting Clubhead and so carry it along the same circular path. This places the ball under the laws of Centrifugal Force. Which requires that the ball leave its circular path at right angles to the radius of that path at the point at which it leaves that path. But the hook-face alignment of the Clubhead – designed to give it the proper relation to the Plane Line – diverts the ball from its true tangential path. This geometric alignment assures full production of straightaway velocity by assuring no glancing action other than for producing backspin. Study 2-J and 2-F.
The second last sentence is the one that causes me some trouble. It will play a big part in whats coming as it relates to what Homer refers to as the Straight Away Position. I dont get it frankly. Would there not be divergence albeit lessened by steeper plane angles . Maybe some body can explain it to me ...
Quote:
The proper horizontal motion of the Clubface controls its alignment during Impact. Only the putter is so constructed as to permit visual alignment. All other Clubs are angled – or hook-faced – in relation to the Clubshaft.
I know Ive read about hook face in other contexts ( a more "dynamic " version if you will ) somewhere in the darn book .... cant find it right now.. Has anyone got em handy?
The second last sentence is the one that causes me some trouble. It will play a big part in whats coming it relates to what Homer refers to as the Straight Away Position. I dont get it frankly. Would there not be divergence albeit lessened by steeper plane angles . Maybe some body can explain it to me ... please.
I know Ive read about hook face in other contexts somewhere in the darn book .... cant find it right now.. Has anyone got em handy?
When the ball is struck before low point the club head and face is pointed down out and forward if not built with hookface. ie. the club head crosses the plane line on the way to low point. This will hit the ball to right field, a little. at the intended point of impact the club head, with hookface, is designed to sit square to the plane line. Therefore, at impact the ball will have a clubface pointed along the plane line/target line not out to right field.
Right field is a tangent at impact.
That is just this bears understanding. But U should pick the understanding U like.
When the ball is struck before low point the club head and face is pointed down out and forward if not built with hookface. ie. the club head crosses the plane line on the way to low point. This will hit the ball to right field, a little. at the intended point of impact the club head, with hookface, is designed to sit square to the plane line. Therefore, at impact the ball will have a clubface pointed along the plane line/target line not out to right field.
Right field is a tangent at impact.
That is just this bears understanding. But U should pick the understanding U like.
Merry Christmas
The HB
HB
I get you. So to talk geometry for a moment (cause Im too lazy to draw it) the club without hook face for balls played back of low point (given no grip rotation) will hit straight shots but pushed to the right . No divergence between face and path.
However a similarly positioned ball with a hooked face club hits a ball that has an initial line of flight which is a cord to the circle . Along the Impact Plane Line if the face is so aligned.
But the clubhead does not travel along this plane line it travels the circular orbit and continues down and out to low point. Which to me implies a divergence between and path .... albeit lessened by steeper plane angles...
ah crap I guess I should draw this.... The steepness of the plane angle and the added loft of the most hooked face clubs could negate draw spin. But there's more to the story if Homer thought that balls played forward of the Straight Away position had a fade tendency.
And therein lies the point I wish Lynn or Ted or the ghost of Homer would clarify Or perhaps I have things all askew.. ? It wouldnt be the first time , nor the last.
Maybe I should research the audio tapes. We need to define the Straight Away Position .
Following are two attempts to draw hook-face . Well as I understand it anyways anyways. Currently. Clarification is welcome .
The first one addressing the notion of hook-face as an angle between face and shaft that allows shorter clubs to be played back in the stance with a face that points down the impact plane line. Clubs are manufactured to sit like this , easily , naturally.
The second trying to and probably failing to illustrate a more "dynamic" version if you will. Just made that term up myself. A hooked-face induced by moving the sweetspot aft of the leading edge . Still trying to find where Homer alludes to this . I know its there somewhere.
(HB I know you have issues with the second drawing... In regard to its practicality given theres a human holding the club etc. Just saying/drawing )
NOTE THE FOLLOWING DRAWING IS NOT GEOMETRY OF THE CIRCLE IN NATURE . MORE PHYSICS RELATED.
Is hook-face a built in Grip Rotation so to speak?
If there is a dynamic hook-face would true swingers be able to play the ball back in their stance accordingly. Seems like they could ... if they really exist that is in the wild as opposed to a theoretical construct. The extreme end of the manipulated / unmanipulated spectrum . Those for whom CF alone squares the clubface .
Ive stepped in two cow pie's in a single step here maybe. Its a good thing we're in the Lab.
I get you. So to talk geometry for a moment (cause Im too lazy to draw it) the club without hook face for balls played back of low point (given no grip rotation) will hit straight shots but pushed to the right . No divergence between face and path.
However a similarly positioned ball with a hooked face club hits a ball that has an initial line of flight which is a cord to the circle . Along the Impact Plane Line if the face is so aligned.
But the clubhead does not travel along this plane line it travels the circular orbit and continues down and out to low point. Which to me implies a divergence between and path .... albeit lessened by steeper plane angles...
ah crap I guess I should draw this.... The steepness of the plane angle and the added loft of the most hooked face clubs could negate draw spin. But there's more to the story if Homer thought that balls played forward of the Straight Away position had a fade tendency. And therein lies the point I wish Lynn or Ted or the ghost of Homer would clarify Or perhaps I have things all askew.. ? It wouldnt be the first time , nor the last.
Maybe I should research the audio tapes. We need to define the Straight Away Position .
No No, If the ball es struck at the point for streight fleight then the ball will have a fade tendency even if it is still before low point. So HK is correct- (I don't have to say that)forward of the STRAIGHT AWAY POSITION is the key wording.
First thing is to know if ypu are a true swinger or "otherwise" because the ball goes otherwise if you hit it otherwise..
HB
Last edited by HungryBear : 12-25-2012 at 03:34 PM.
No No, If the ball es struck at the point for streight fleight then the ball will have a fade tendency even if it is still before low point. So HK is correct- (I don't have to say that)forward of the STRAIGHT AWAY POSITION is the key wording.
First thing is to know if ypu are a true swinger or "otherwise" because the ball goes otherwise if you hit it otherwise..
HB
Thank you Beer ... oops now theres an idea . Where the heck is my christmas afternoon beverage?
Merry Christmas to all who may be laying around reading LBG at this moment. If so its very much a "lunatics have taken over the asylum" kind of thing this thread is. Regular programming will commence again once the guards get us locked up properly and sedated.
Uh still struggling with this one HB. Can it be drawn? Where's the plane line pointing , wheres the Straight Away Position on the arc of approach etc etc ?
It kinda takes on added meaning?
Hybrid Mode
