So what's the difference between flipping the hands and a flip release? I've always associated the two.
Anyway, I took a look at a few other slo mo videos of Sergeo. I can now understand why you regard it as a flip release. There's a sense of an independant club motion in there. A rotation component that isn't fully backed up by the arms swing. Sign of a chicken wing through impact, almost if he is tempoary shortening his left arm to take up the slack from a flip. I didn't expext to see that. I didn't see it on the first video I examined either.
It looks flippy face on (6 o'clock). And also from slightly behind ( 7.30). But from 4.30 it doesn't look like a flip.
Too me serge releases right wrist bend late like couples. They do it in a way that causes the face to layback and not roll. You can find pics of hogan like that too.
I need to se Hogan do that in motion. There's something about the rhythm in Sergeo's stroke that I didn't notice before... But I guess you almost have to have done something similar yourself to really feel whether what you see is good or not. In any case, I can't recall having seen something similar in Hogan.
If you take a look at Dustin Johnson through impact - I'd say that looks like a close to perfect application of lag pressure. His shoulder turn seem to work in rhythm with the hands and the release of the club. What I saw in Sergeo made me unsecure whether the same was the case there...
I need to se Hogan do that in motion. There's something about the rhythm in Sergeo's stroke that I didn't notice before... But I guess you almost have to have done something similar yourself to really feel whether what you see is good or not. In any case, I can't recall having seen something similar in Hogan.
If you take a look at Dustin Johnson through impact - I'd say that looks like a close to perfect application of lag pressure. His shoulder turn seem to work in rhythm with the hands and the release of the club. What I saw in Sergeo made me unsecure whether the same was the case there...
There's so much crap going on in this thread . . . what piece do you need to see Hogan do? That baseball deal where the bat drops?
You can really see it here as his pivot had slowed considerably in his old age . . . he gots the move.
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 02-19-2011 at 09:45 PM.
Too me serge releases right wrist bend late like couples. They do it in a way that causes the face to layback and not roll. You can find pics of hogan like that too.
This was what I wanted to see, bucket. I've never seen Hogan "wait" for the clubhead to close - or shorten the length of his left arm to get a proper club face at impact. But that's what I saw in some of those Sergeo videos.
Daryl wrote:
Quote:
I think that you make a very good point. The Flip may create some slack and the Left Arm manipulation that you're observing may be an affect while trying to "Time" Impact.
I may have spoken prematurely about Sergio, but whenever I see an out of Line Primary Lever at Start Down, I immediately think and look for a Flip Release.
Anytime the Shaft and Clubhead are Radially out of line with the Left Arm and Left Wrist, a slight pull with the Left Arm will cause the Clubhead to get in-line. Thus, when we, at Start-Down, try to leave the Hands at the Top, we are Aligning the Left Arm and Clubshaft while taking out the Slack.
Sergio allows the Clubhead to Drop Slightly below the Hands at Startdown and then, when ready, he pulls the Hands strongly downward. Typically, the force is strong enough so that rather than the Clubhead simply "getting in-line", it creates CF and causes the Club to Release. "Flip Release"
The Clubhead races to the outside. This is "Timed" to get aligned by/at Impact.
Daryl,
I am quite impressed that you could deduce a flip from the Start Down in Sergeo's stroke. Yes. Really.
I've seen nothing but sustained lag pressure in El Ninjo's stroke before but at a closer look I saw the flip as you called it. I'll have to chew on your post for a while. But do you really mean out of line? Or do you mean out of something that has to do with rhythm and geometry?
As far as I know, out of line in TGM simply means lagging.
This was what I wanted to see, bucket. I've never seen Hogan "wait" for the clubhead to close - or shorten the length of his left arm to get a proper club face at impact. But that's what I saw in some of those Sergeo videos.
NO NO sorry I misunderstood you . . . . I was saying the right WRIST (and right elbow) not the left arm. Sergio I think shrinks up the left arm because he doesn't extend his hips and spine like Hogan . .
sergio doesn't make this move . . . swinging from the feet maximum radius . . . he has to shrink up his left arm . . . low point control compensation . . . I think . . . sounds good anyhow . .
Here's you a slightly flip under look . . . . there are more . . .
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 02-19-2011 at 11:14 PM.
Watch Justin Johnson's rhythm in the moment of truth. There's no wating. No slowing down. He is just draggin' and drivin' all the way through impact and then some. There's no sign of letting go of pp#2 pressure to release the club. Same thing with PP#1.
Poetry in motion.
And brute force.
Sometimes the two go hand in hand.
The pitching of the elbow and the scapula dig is good, but IMO, everything upstroke should be timed to achive a totally uncompensated impact.
Justin has his idiocyncracies. But through impac he is as close to ideal impact alignments as per TGM as I've ever seen.
A well timed flip release is ingrained in many of these players. Granted they have a flat left wrist at impact, but it's only because they have timed the pivot for their hands for release i.e., it's a pivot controlled hands procedure.
Homer understood it, and didn't spend a lot of time with it, because he was focused on hand awareness. Never-the-less, it is what most folks use, and its pretty effective. No big mystery, the pivot is guiding the hands to their release point.
No active elbow awareness; no active hand alignment to plane awareness; it's all about the feel of hands guided by the pivot.
Admit it, when we aren't thinking or aiming, its what happens. Some are better at it than others. They just dug it out of the dirt and put it on auto pilot. The more we have hand awareness, the better our pivots respond, but some like Sergio have the flip too well timed to mess with it. Wait till he turns 40 and starts wondering why he can't shape shots anymore. Body control gets a lot tougher as we age.
Yeah - this thread is all over the place.
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Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
A well timed flip release is ingrained in many of these players. Granted they have a flat left wrist at impact, but it's only because they have timed the pivot for their hands for release i.e., it's a pivot controlled hands procedure.
Homer understood it, and didn't spend a lot of time with it, because he was focused on hand awareness. Never-the-less, it is what most folks use, and its pretty effective. No big mystery, the pivot is guiding the hands to their release point.
No active elbow awareness; no active hand alignment to plane awareness; it's all about the feel of hands guided by the pivot.
Admit it, when we aren't thinking or aiming, its what happens. Some are better at it than others. They just dug it out of the dirt and put it on auto pilot. The more we have hand awareness, the better our pivots respond, but some like Sergio have the flip too well timed to mess with it. Wait till he turns 40 and starts wondering why he can't shape shots anymore. Body control gets a lot tougher as we age.
Yeah - this thread is all over the place.
Preparing to roll on that line and the Finish Swivel is where the Golf machine lives! I think it is ok to to see the thread bounce around Bagger. I read it as a technique to try (Displacement) and it showed me some real power and then forced me to contemplate and study the true nature of the FLW and the rest of my set-up in addition. It must be difficult as an administrator since a 3 dimensional fact can be viewed by thousands of perspectives without being wrong, only incomplete.
Consider how often well meaning people claim that Mr. Hogan is their poster child for their technique. Some of them are disingenuous but most of them are just unaware of TGM.
ICT.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
A well timed flip release is ingrained in many of these players. Granted they have a flat left wrist at impact, but it's only because they have timed the pivot for their hands for release i.e., it's a pivot controlled hands procedure.
No active elbow awareness; no active hand alignment to plane awareness; it's all about the feel of hands guided by the pivot.
Admit it, when we aren't thinking or aiming, its what happens. Some are better at it than others. They just dug it out of the dirt and put it on auto pilot. The more we have hand awareness, the better our pivots respond, but some like Sergio have the flip too well timed to mess with it. Wait till he turns 40 and starts wondering why he can't shape shots anymore. Body control gets a lot tougher as we age.
Yeah - this thread is all over the place.
Wow these are pretty bold statements. You have somehow developed some sort of pokemon powers to read minds AND see the future..... The force is strong in this one boys!
What is wrong with this motion from a yellow pokemon standpoint? Pivot is the most centered. Double anchor...copious lag...minimal axis tilt...three functions controlled as well as anyone on tour....face not flashing....and he did this via some by chance evolution.....no creationist junk? When his pops guided him?
Just because he has deviated from the prescribed plane angle .... We have short circuited due to a perceived round peg square hole scenario? We have a chapter 10.... We can look look look...... Could it be that this is what it looks like with arc of approach angled hinge motion on the elbow plane?
Since el nino es no mas when he is 40, what is the prescription? Lift his hands up teach him to swivel so he can control the 3 functions with that geriatric body and all those compensated alignments?
Yes . . . this thread has been all over the place . . . and now Swing-Killa-Go-Rilla the Ghost of Christmas Future has peeled back the layers of infinity future to bring us to the funeral of El Nino . . . es finito . . . his mind has always been dead and now his body and swing . . . all because of some sort of Darwinist experiment that got him on the elbow plane and by chance has controlled the 3 functions and has wrist conditions that smell of gorilla turds . . . after the ball is LONG GONE . . . forces . . . must . . . go . . . some . . . where.
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Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 02-21-2011 at 08:49 AM.
Oh and one more thing about percieved "flip timers" gettin' old. . . . . I reckon if Freddie Couples evolutionary biscuit flip had learned to get his wrist conditions right he woulda won this week . . . instead he came in what 2nd or something at age 51ish . . . . with "worse" wrist conditions than El Nino . . .
Hey Freddie! If you don't learn to keep your left wrist "flat" (which is an alignment) . . .you'll be DONE DEAD by the time your 70 pal. Better wake up and smell the gorilla turds.
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