Isn't golf amazing. What computes for some folks doesn't for others. That is why we discuss on this forum. There is a lot left to the interpretation of the english language and the difference in feels. I know Tom worked with me on this out to first base and I just didn't get it. If you think about it the hands from the top are inside and do come down the plane towards first base moving in a circle/ellipse. So you can move in a circle and trace a straight plane line. Some thought has to keep the action on plane. Once tracing had been ingrained in me by ben doyle I couldn't fit in swinging towards right field. The other area where I had conflict is putting together bending of the right arm and cocking of the left wrist. Ben had taught holding on taking the right elbow deep, then he talked about straighting the right arm, "shooting" with hip action. You can hold on from the top, straighten the right arm and release later in the down swing after "centering" and sitting down. In one procedure you are delaying hip action and moving the arms, swinging past the left hip(which is meaningless to me) and in the other delay the straightening of the arm until later in the down swing and then release. TGM to me means the arm bends and the wrists cock, ie full 90 degree bend equals fully cocked , not fully bent not fully cocked. No cocking of the right wrist. Of course many successful golfers violate these rules. But I still feel Homer's "suggest" off the best chance of success for amateur's.
What I get from the Tomasello videos is an attempt to simplify TGM. Swinging down and out without regard to the target has a feel of swinging to first base. When you watch the swings Tommy makes it does not look like a swing that goes too far to the right. I do know watching his teaching has really helped me stop steering. It is a credit to this site that an aspiring TGM'r can watch Yoda, Tomasello and Doyle. Differences in teaching, but obviously all are well grounded in Homer. You can learn an awful lot from the videos in the gallery. Every time I watch them and then pick up the book, I get a lot of aha moments.
True dodger , true. Swinging to first base could help a guy who tends to cut across it to get his delivery line aligned to a square plane line. Opposites or whatever. Thats the way they used to teach golf when I was a kid. Got a slice? Here's a hook swing, kid.
But and this is a big but to my mind....without knowing the true underlying geometry you will be forever going back and forth between too much and too little of whatever your compensating move is. Why not just know the correct geometry and in the face of the common cut across path, keep THRUSTING OUT until the clubhead blur is consistent with a straight line plane line?
To my mind this is one of Homer's best messages to the hacker on the tee. But I fear sometimes the message gets lost in.... the details or whatever.
And for the record Ive goofed with T.T.'s forget the pivot just throw the arms thing ...........I'd never say its all wrong. In fact , Ive got some video of guys chopping down trees with axes, pro loggers and those guys have pivots Id kill for. With probably zero thought to having one, those guys are just throwing their arms and axe at the tree. But with Moe Norman like Pivots. I dunno.
-you need it for total compression.
-it feels like a roll. But you need to ask yourself how much of a roll. Not too much or too little. There is an Alignment that'll make this clear.
-it is the opposite of the ill founded but common , "seems as if" logic that the clubhead should remain square to the hole for a straight shot. Steering , Vertical Hinging. High floater shots resulting.
-research its Associated Basic Plane ......it'll take a while but it'll make sense , total sense in the end. Closing with no Layback it has an advantage......in a totally compressed ball.
So, O.B. Left, you're saying that it's completely reasonable to say that the Clubface can be "Closing Only" while the Left Wrist is performing a "Full Roll".
So, O.B. Left, you're saying that it's completely reasonable to say that the Clubface can be "Closing Only" while the Left Wrist is performing a "Full Roll".
I agree. The Mechanics of Horizontal Hinging.
Thanks . But to be precise....
A full roll in feel, but one which aligns/ keeps the geometrically flat left wrist Vertical to is associated Horizontal Basic Plane (the ground) through the impact interval.
"Full Roll" can be over done after all and so you need to check by looking at it, the alignment and then incorporating the associated feel for that day.... cause the feel alone will change day to day.
THanks guys for the reply s, a lot of good stuff here. I understand all of the above. I feel that when you think of rolling, everything becomes a timing issue. I feel that this roll should happen form the correct movements through impact. Until the brain is trained the hands wont behave... SLOW drills for me until this is nailed.
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Nailing the Hinge Action "Rolls" -- Feel Versus Clubface
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
But to be precise....
A full roll in feel, but one which aligns/ keeps the geometrically flat left wrist Vertical to is associated Horizontal Basic Plane (the ground) through the impact interval.
"Full Roll" can be over done after all and so you need to check by looking at it, the alignment and then incorporating the associated feel for that day.... cause the feel alone will change day to day.
Horizontal Hinging -- RollFeel produces Full Roll of the Clubface.
Angled Hinging -- No Roll Feel produces Half Roll of the Clubface.
Vertical Hinging -- Reverse RollFeel produces No Roll of the Clubface.
In regard to Mr. Doyle, in my recent lessons he did mention the swinging to first base. He definately emphasised a "sit and tilt" action. When we looked at my video he saw my right shoulder way too high and looked like he had seen a rattlesnake. "We gotta fix that, it won't work, your out of right arm".
And work we did, work work work.
A few nuggets:
Use left shoulder to set right arm(over right shoulder)
first move sit and tilt, draging the club off the roof, then in the gutter (feel #3 pressure point)(but end of club toward first base)
Left shoulder toward left ear
Right arm down toward belt buckle
then "fire with pivot" till wrists "kiss"
maintain flexibility in neck, ankles, wrists
A lot of other stuf too of course, but i think that captures the basic Doyle version of the first base stuff.
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