I trying to wrap my head around the swinger's lag pressure.
For the hitter it is well describe as PP#3 aft side of the shaft with forward leaning shaft.
The swinger doesn't feel PP#3 on the aft side. Does't feel PP3 at all sometime, but in order for the ball to fly as far there is just as much force on the shaft as a hitter.
Question: where is this felt?
I am thinking this would be over the back of the left hand and left forearm.
This would be distinct different feel than "lag pressure"
Can we coin a new name for this pressure for the swinger? Maybe "drag pressure? "
Avoid confusion with lag pressure
10-11 for your final answer on the use of #3 by a swinger.
Quote:
10-11-0-3 PRESSURE POINT #3
(above) can be either active or passive (6-C-2-A) Accumulator #1 indirect drive (7-11) of the Secondary Lever Assembly (6-A-3) (2-K). That is, actively as Accumulator #2 Axe Handle application for Hitting (10-3-K, 10-19-A) but passively as Accumulator #3 (6-B-3-0, 10-19-C) or with a Right Arm Swing (7-19). Lag Loading (10-19) and Delivery Line (2-J-3) requirements. It is Loaded (10-22) per 7-19 as required by Component 19 application being employed (10-19). Study 2-G and 6-C.
Remember, with Swinging, Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A), just and only because of Loading Action direction – no actual movement of anything. So from The Top to Release, the Loading put the top side of the Clubshaft against the first knuckle of the forefinger. But with Hitting there must be NO change whatever.
When the Wrists “Swivel” back to the Vertical Position (4-C-3) during Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A) per 6-B-3. Pressure Point #3 may – but need not – return to its “strong” position (Aft side of the Clubshaft). That is – if left in “Top-of-the-Clubshaft” position it becomes a Weak Single Action Grip (10-2-A) and the interchangeable equivalent to 10-2-C for Swingers. But both are improper for Hitters using Single Wrist Action (10-18-C).
A swinger does not have to employ #3, but certainly can...
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
This relates to something that has really helped me out. Kev nailed it, but if I may .....
Originally Posted by dlam
I trying to wrap my head around the swinger's lag pressure. For the hitter it is well describe as PP#3 aft side of the shaft with forward leaning shaft.
For the Drive Loader, 12-1-0 this is correct but it is possible to Hit with a Swingers Start Down, Drag Loading which would load the Knuckle under the right Index Finger during Longitudinal Acceleration in Startdown. The Lag Pressure Point would then Rotate to the first joint in the Right Index Finger during Radial Acceleration. Assuming your Knuckle and Index Finger are aligned to the Top and Aft of the Shaft respectively.
Quote:
The swinger doesn't feel PP#3 on the aft side. Does't feel PP3 at all sometime, but in order for the ball to fly as far there is just as much force on the shaft as a hitter.
Question: where is this felt?
The Swinger, (any golfer for that matter) will feel Lag Pressure, given any acceleration, its just a matter of where he feels it. Which is a function of his "direction of loading" and his grip type. He'll feel the load with whatever is attached to the Top or Aft of the Shaft. At the Knuckle only as per 10-11-0-3 in Kevs post given a Week Single Action Grip. Or assuming a Strong Single Action Grip at the Knuckle during Drag Loading and then at the First Joint in the Index Finger during Radial Acceleration. The latter is the more common method and Homer's recommended grip type I believe. My cross handed buddy , who can really play (local Champion of Champions) must feel Lag Pressure along the finger tips of his left hand during Radial. Maybe loads his left thumb for Longitudinal ... I'd imagine, Ill have to ask him.
Personally I love the way Homer described ........ "Remember, with Swinging, Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A), just and only because of Loading Action direction – no actual movement of anything." To me that means the only thing being "rotated" per say is the direction of loading. Along the aft/finger or along the top/knuckle.
When Im Swinging from Adjusted with a Lagging Takeaway ......something I love these days......I feel like I am tossing the Club UP against the Knuckle . I get into trouble sometimes with a false feel for loading the Index Finger hard and early......something that takes me a bit too much IN, under plane on the backswing. Like a mini Nancy Lopez or Raymond Floyd move. It'll arch the left wrist too ......but I digress.
What do you guys think about the "Direction of Loading"? Have any of you goofed around with that bit of business? Dustin sure isnt loading his Knuckle is he! I sure like that guy though. Ben Hogan , now there's a Knuckle Loader then Index Finger.....just look at his grip. Its made to accept the Load, sustain it. "You get this pressure just going through".
This relates to something that has really helped me out. Kev nailed it, but if I may .....
For the Drive Loader, 12-1-0 this is correct but it is possible to Hit with a Swingers Start Down, Drag Loading which would load the Knuckle under the right Index Finger during Longitudinal Acceleration in Startdown. The Lag Pressure Point would then Rotate to the first joint in the Right Index Finger during Radial Acceleration. Assuming your Knuckle and Index Finger are aligned to the Top and Aft of the Shaft respectively.
The Swinger, (any golfer for that matter) will feel Lag Pressure, given any acceleration, its just a matter of where he feels it. Which is a function of his "direction of loading" and his grip type. He'll feed the load with whatever is attached to the Top or Aft of the Shaft. At the Knuckle only as per 10-11-0-3 in Kevs post given a Week Single Action Grip. Or assuming a Strong Single Action Grip at the Knuckle during Drag Loading and then at the First Joint in the Index Finger during Radial Acceleration. The latter is the more common method and Homer's recommended grip type I believe. My cross handed buddy , who can really play (local Champion of Champions) must feel Lag Pressure along the finger tips of his left hand during Radial. Maybe loads his left thumb for Longitudinal ... I'd imagine, Ill have to ask him.
Personally I love the way Homer described ........ "Remember, with Swinging, Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A), just and only because of Loading Action direction – no actual movement of anything." To me that means the only thing being "rotated" per say is the direction of loading. Along the aft/finger or along the top/knuckle.
When Im Swinging from Adjusted with a Lagging Takeaway ......something I love these days......I feel like I am tossing the Club UP against the Knuckle . I get into trouble sometimes with a false feel for loading the Index Finger hard and early......something that takes me a bit too much IN, under plane on the backswing. Like a mini Nancy Lopez or Raymond Floyd move. It'll arch the left wrist too ......but I digress.
What do you guys think about the "Direction of Loading"? Have any of you goofed around with that bit of business? Dustin sure isnt loading his Knuckle is he! I sure like that guy though. Ben Hogan , now there's a Knuckle Loader then Index Finger.....just look at his grip. Its made to accept the Load, sustain it. "You get this pressure just going through".
In late and just now reading your post, O.B..
Good stuff.
Now getting ready to read it again (and go to your references).
This relates to something that has really helped me out. Kev nailed it, but if I may .....
LOL
I don't think I nailed anything. I am finally to the point where I can find stuff in the book and understand some of what I read. Your going into the guts and explaining it is priceless to all who take the time to pay attention. Thanks very much for your help O.B. !
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Thanks Kev lets see what Yoda says though.......Some times when Im talking to him in person Ill be launching into a question with a bit of a preamble and suffice to say I never get outa the preamble.
The dang book is a riddle inside of a riddle which is wrapped in a riddle, which makes it pretty hard on Joe Duffer's head. When you get it all figured out you're too old to play golf or insane or both. My last words will be something like...."ah so thats what Homer was talking abou...................." or "Either that dang yellow book goes or I do....."
Thanks Kev lets see what Yoda says though.......Some times when Im talking to him in person Ill be launching into a question with a bit of a preamble and suffice to say I never get outa the preamble.
The dang book is a riddle inside of a riddle which is wrapped in a riddle, which makes it pretty hard on Joe Duffer's head. When you get it all figured out you're too old to play golf or insane or both. My last words will be something like...."ah so thats what Homer was talking abou...................." or "Either that dang yellow book goes or I do....."
I'm already getting old and too dumm to be insane..
Thank you guys, you make the game of golf less frustrating and more inspiring.
I now realize why I my right hand was a bit "weaker" when I felt pure swinging. My right index knuckle was located quarter turn towards the top of the shaft. and I was swinging down and.a bit steeper.
My left hand and wrist also shifted a bit more to the top of the shaft in a "stronger" position. This was to facilitate the all DRAG loading/release force,the direction of my pure swinging motion was downward.
No or little lag was felt.
If I turned my right hand a bit so I feel PP#3 at the aft of the shaft I feel I have to shallow out my swing in order to use/feel LAG pressure. In other words, drive load/release tends to match with a more level hit for me than a downward blow.
Pure swinging without pp3 feels more like a downward blow.
Take a look at these hands.......just made for Drag Loading. Knuckle on top , first joint of the right index finger on the aft. Seemingly foreshadowed in the way he held a ball even. Alignments born out of hard work , trial and error but here for us to discover intellectually thanks to Homer.
Hogan probably never heard of "Drag Loading" but his hands knew it well. I dont know if he ever discussed the feeling of Drag Loading....the loading of the knuckle, the body pulling the club longitudinally by pp #2, the last three fingers of the left hand. (Startdown waggles anyone?) He danced all around it though from what I can see while discussing the mechanics of it.
In terms of Radial and the index finger he was caught on film discussing it's feel. A tape that Lynn gave to the world actually. Here's an edited version , watch where he says "its just forward". That is inertia , lag pressure at the right index finger he is discussing as opposed to direct drive thrust.
You can only feel that inertia as long as the Hands are accelerating. In fact to sustain any given amount of lag pressure you must sustain their Rate of Acceleration. A drop in the rate of acceleration, though you may still be accelerating, will see a corresponding drop in amount of lag pressure (in psi). To sustain the rate of acceleration you better start off kind of slow and give yourself a chance to keep it up. Sort of like a sprinter. Ah by the way Im thinking the Endless Belts Analogy's constant hand speed was not intended to be applied literally to your golf swing......you'd have no lag pressure in that case. Hence its label as an analogy perhaps? Not saying anything is wrong with the Endless Belt though , I love it.
This is Homer's Heavy Hit . Triple H. Golf's secret. Lag Pressure (and Rolling but thats another story) create the flat left wrist not vice versa to my mind. Swing the Hands not the Clubhead etc it all relates.
As an aside, although Mr Hogan said "butt pad" the photos seem to reveal "first joint" to my eyes. Either will work I guess but its interesting to this golfing lunatic. Hmm could one be the feel of the pressure and the other be the alignment to the aft, given some downwards direction to the thrust?
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