Trying to develop a question! In the interim, from 7-3, the right forearm position at the Top is different for Hitters and Swingers. What are the primary contributors? Also, is it correct that Top is hands at shoulder level?
7-3 makes reference to a different Right Elbow position for the Arc and Angle of Approach Procedures. You can Hit and use the Arc or the Angle but Swinging you can only use the Arc. The Arc and the Angle do not share the same Plane Line so to be precise its not just the Right Elbow position that differs! 2-J-3 is a big mess of worms.....hard to understand for a few thousand readings.
Yes, Top is Right Shoulder High.
To answer your question very basically , your Right Forearm and therefore Elbow support the loading action ......is in line with the direction of the loading action. Like a column supports the weight of a floor above it say. It back stops it, a very handy thing that'll inhibit off plane loading like say Nancy Lopez or Raymond Floyd.
Think of the Right Forearm as a support post at Top or End but then turning into an on plane extension of the clubshaft with all its added mass and leverage through impact!!
The #3 pp has two locations. One at the knuckle , on the top of the shaft , typically a swingers location for Loading as per 10-19-C Drag Loading. Here for the Right Forearm to act in a supporting role it must be in line with the loading of the Knuckle along the Top of the Shaft ie directly under the Top of the shaft at End. Vice versa for the Hitter who loads the First Joint in the Right Index Finger, the AFt of the Shaft and 10-19-A Drives Loads. Here the Right Forearm will be directly opposite or inline with the Loading of the Aft of the Shaft at Top.
So you can see that if you are in the process of loading one or the other Pressure Point you'd best have your elbow positioned accordingly during the Backstroke. The elbow position is not merely a result of stopping at Top or End, its a geometric alignment in support of the loading action, what ever it may be.
Given the same Plane Line for both procedures you have two different Right Elbow Positions. One inline with the Top of the Shaft , one inline with the Aft. Both having corresponding #3pp locations and ideally a "c" shaped index finger ala Hogan's right hand grip. You need your knuckle on the top , your first joint on the aft. Especially if you Drag then Drive.
In the Royal and Ancient Golf Clubs museum at St Andrews they have bronze casts of the grips of Open winners past .............every one of them had this alignment to their right index finger.
Hogan even aligned his knuckle and first joint in a similar fashion, when tee'n up a ball! Coincidence?
Its weird how when you learn about the alignments you start seeing them everywhere. Or maybe Im crazy.
7-3 makes reference to a different Right Elbow position for the Arc and Angle of Approach Procedures. You can Hit and use the Arc or the Angle but Swinging you can only use the Arc. The Arc and the Angle do not share the same Plane Line so to be precise its not just the Right Elbow position that differs! 2-J-3 is a big mess of worms.....hard to understand for a few thousand readings.
Yes, Top is Right Shoulder High.
To answer your question very basically , your Right Forearm and therefore Elbow support the loading action ......is in line with the direction of the loading action. Like a column supports the weight of a floor above it say. It back stops it, a very handy thing that'll inhibit off plane loading like say Nancy Lopez or Raymond Floyd.
Think of the Right Forearm as a support post at Top or End but then turning into an on plane extension of the clubshaft with all its added mass and leverage through impact!!
The #3 pp has two locations. One at the knuckle , on the top of the shaft , typically a swingers location for Loading as per 10-19-C Drag Loading. Here for the Right Forearm to act in a supporting role it must be in line with the loading of the Knuckle along the Top of the Shaft ie directly under the Top of the shaft at End. Vice versa for the Hitter who loads the First Joint in the Right Index Finger, the AFt of the Shaft and 10-19-A Drives Loads. Here the Right Forearm will be directly opposite or inline with the Loading of the Aft of the Shaft at Top.
So you can see that if you are in the process of loading one or the other Pressure Point you'd best have your elbow positioned accordingly during the Backstroke. The elbow position is not merely a result of stopping at Top or End, its a geometric alignment in support of the loading action, what ever it may be.
Given the same Plane Line for both procedures you have two different Right Elbow Positions. One inline with the Top of the Shaft , one inline with the Aft. Both having corresponding #3pp locations and ideally a "c" shaped index finger ala Hogan's right hand grip. You need your knuckle on the top , your first joint on the aft. Especially if you Drag then Drive.
In the Royal and Ancient Golf Clubs museum at St Andrews they have bronze casts of the grips of Open winners past .............every one of them had this alignment to their right index finger.
Hogan even aligned his knuckle and first joint in a similar fashion, when tee'n up a ball! Coincidence?
Its weird how when you learn about the alignments you start seeing them everywhere. Or maybe Im crazy.
The Arc and the Angle do not share the same Plane Line so to be precise its not just the Right Elbow position that differs! 2-J-3 is a big mess of worms.....hard to understand for a few thousand readings.
This makes no sense to me, are you saying you have two different baselines of the plane for hitting and swinging? In hitting you should be tracing a baseline that would be different than swinging for a square-square setup to hit a straight shot.
__________________
"The only real shortcuts are more and more know how"...TGM
This makes no sense to me, are you saying you have two different baselines of the plane for hitting and swinging? In hitting you should be tracing a baseline that would be different than swinging for a square-square setup to hit a straight shot.
No thats not exactly what Im saying. Again Hitters can use the Angle or the Arc of Approach.
A Hitter using the Arc of Approach would be using, Tracing the same Plane Line Base Line as a Swinger.
But a Hitter using the Angle Of Approach will construct a Plane which has a Base Line that passes through Impact and Low Point and therefor out to right field to varying degrees depending on ball position vis a vis low point. A straight line equivalent to the Arc of Approaches curved Delivery Line through the same two points, which he will Cover Visually. They both satisfy the ideal geometry for Impact , 2-C-0.
Sorry , its a real head scratcher I know, gmbtempe. Words fail horribly in the description of this concept.
Single Wrist Action promotes Loading the #3 PP against the Primary Lever and Standard Wrist Action (Swivel) promotes Loading the #3 PP against the Secondary Lever.
For Swingers, the Start-up Swivels 1/4 Turn Rotation is a simplified approach and promotes the #3 PP Load against the Secondary Lever for any Length Stroke going past Start-up. "Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action" does not mean that the Rotation occurred at the "Top".
The difference between "Top" and "End" is related to Wrist Action. With 10-18-C, Single Wrist Action, moving from Top to End would re-align the Right Forearm (1/4 Turn) and therefore re-locate the Right Elbow (1/4 Turn) with the result that the Secondary Lever would Load against the #3 PP. So, we can Swivel at Start-up or Swivel merely by moving the Backstroke from "Top" to "End". Note that each of the three procedures in 10-18-C stop the Backstroke at "Top".
The Important difference between Loading the #3 PP against the Primary or Secondary Lever is the "Subsequent Right Arm Participation". 7-3
So, the "Top" for a Hitter is an Alignment rather than a Location.
Quote:
10-11-0-3 PRESSURE POINT #3 (above) can be either active or passive (6-C-2-A) Accumulator #1 indirect drive (7-11) of the Secondary Lever Assembly (6-A-3) (2-K). That is, actively as Accumulator #2 Axe Handle application for Hitting (10-3-K, 10-19-A) but passively as Accumulator #3 (6-B-3-0, 10-19-C) or with a Right Arm Swing (7-19). Lag Loading (10-19) and Delivery Line (2-J-3) requirements. It is Loaded (10-22) per 7-19 as required by Component 19 application being employed (10-19). Study 2-G and 6-C.
Remember, with Swinging, Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A), just and only because of Loading Action direction – no actual movement of anything. So from The Top to Release, the Loading put the top side of the Clubshaft against the first knuckle of the forefinger. But with Hitting there must be NO change whatever.
When the Wrists “Swivel” back to the Vertical Position (4-C-3) during Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A) per 6-B-3. Pressure Point #3 may – but need not – return to its “strong” position (Aft side of the Clubshaft). That is – if left in “Top-of-the-Clubshaft” position it becomes a Weak Single Action Grip (10-2-A) and the interchangeable equivalent to 10-2-C for Swingers. But both are improper for Hitters using Single Wrist Action (10-18-C).
You can't fake this stuff. One can artificially Load the #3 PP but the Alignments aren't present to determine the Motion of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge. Then there's EA. Without EA, it's like watching a girl throw a baseball (or O.B Left). Once the #3 PP is Loaded, you need EA to keep the Elbow aligned(Power Package) and guide it down the Proper Path.
Can the Swinger load the knuckle at End without a 10-2-A Grip Type or without cocking the Right Wrist?
The key is to load the #3 PP against the Secondary Lever without regard for Grip Type or Wrist Action. 10-2-B is the recommended Grip along with Standard Wrist Action.
If you cock the Right Wrist, then you may as well bend the Left Elbow. Cock the Left Wrist is synonymous with bending the Right Elbow.
I know it's against the TGM gospel, but I don't see how it is possible to produce a good snap release without cocking the left wrist in the down stroke.
I believe even Yoda cocks his right wrist in the down stroke.
To not cock the wrist in the down stroke requires a simultaneous sweep release as far as I can see.
Can the Swinger load the knuckle at End without a 10-2-A Grip Type or without cocking the Right Wrist?
Yes. But lets be sure we mean the same thing by "cocking" the Right Hand. Hammering as opposed to backward bending. Dont do it , there is no need and its off plane, in a Right Forearm Flying Wedge sense.
The knuckle in question is at the base of the right hands index finger and so it is more right hand grip type dependent than left. If you want to load the shaft along the Top of the shaft for Drag Loading during Longitudinal Acceleration and then later support the Aft during Radial Acceleration you'll need two pp#3 locations aligned accordingly. If you only wish to Drive period then you could make do without the knuckle aligned to the Top of the shaft since you wont bend the shaft along that axis anyways. Best to stop at Top for that one Homer reasoned.
Here's another way to think about this crucial alignment of the right index finger and knuckle..... Think of the butt end of the grip as being divided along two axis, north south and east west. The knuckle is ideally aligned to the former the first joint to the latter. But, if you're attempting to Swing and Drag Load and your knuckle is not aligned to the Top of the shaft and then you Load that knuckle............you are not loading, not bending the shaft along the correct axis for the Swingers Drag Loading 10-19-C Startdown.
There's a lot of "ham fisted" right hand grips out there that have the knuckle on the aft of the shaft........The butt end axis that you Load is the one you will Release , action/reaction. If you load the aft you'll release it .........which'll be Radial Acceleration as opposed to the Top of the Shaft Longitudinal Acceleration. Meaning the Clubshaft, the Palm of the Left Wrist will come off the Inclined Plane early, non Sequenced Release , 2 and 3 at the same time......Hitter style. A death move for a Swinger often. Early Release at best.
It may feel like an Over the Top move to the afflicted but it cant be fixed until the shaft is loaded correctly. And the best way to insure this is to correctly align your right index in a "c" shape like fashion to the handle. Knuckle on the Top , First Joint on the Aft. Get your Right Hand , specifically your Right Index Finger and its two Lag Pressure Points aligned in accordance with your desired Loading Action and then put your Brain in your Hands and load it, then nurse it, all by Feel. . You'll remember Homer defined his mission as "Getting the correct information into the HANDS of the golfing public".
I personally have a habit of getting a little strong in the right Hand and then loading the knuckle which has slid to about 1;30 on the clock ........off plane loading being the result. My clubshaft wagging inside a little even, my left hand getting a little bowed or too flat at Top. Its a false feel Loading. Everything feels right but it isnt because my Lag Pressure Point Alignment is off. I can hit some weak cuts with those alignments.......if I try to fix it with the Delivery Path or Swivel Im off down the wrong road heading to Compensationville. Two or three wrongs trying to make a straight shot. It can take weeks to get things back. But now , I just check my Alignments and make sure the things Im feeling are actually doing what they're supposed to be doing.
Its a beautiful machine that Homer uncovered...........I think he did a lot of looking at Hogan when it came to Drag Loading 10-19-C. In Lynn's GSEM class in 1982. Homer was talking about Drag Loading, Swinging from the Feet etc and said "Now Hogan........... the ideal....."
Thanks OBLeft. I now have a different understanding of what Yoda meant by PP3 rotating. Are there book references for including the first knuckle in PP3?
Daryl~could you repost or pm it to me? Thanks
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
7-3 makes reference to a different Right Elbow position for the Arc and Angle of Approach Procedures. You can Hit and use the Arc or the Angle but Swinging you can only use the Arc. The Arc and the Angle do not share the same Plane Line so to be precise its not just the Right Elbow position that differs! 2-J-3 is a big mess of worms.....hard to understand for a few thousand readings.
Yes, Top is Right Shoulder High.
To answer your question very basically , your Right Forearm and therefore Elbow support the loading action ......is in line with the direction of the loading action. Like a column supports the weight of a floor above it say. It back stops it, a very handy thing that'll inhibit off plane loading like say Nancy Lopez or Raymond Floyd.
Think of the Right Forearm as a support post at Top or End but then turning into an on plane extension of the clubshaft with all its added mass and leverage through impact!!
The #3 pp has two locations. One at the knuckle , on the top of the shaft , typically a swingers location for Loading as per 10-19-C Drag Loading. Here for the Right Forearm to act in a supporting role it must be in line with the loading of the Knuckle along the Top of the Shaft ie directly under the Top of the shaft at End. Vice versa for the Hitter who loads the First Joint in the Right Index Finger, the AFt of the Shaft and 10-19-A Drives Loads. Here the Right Forearm will be directly opposite or inline with the Loading of the Aft of the Shaft at Top.
So you can see that if you are in the process of loading one or the other Pressure Point you'd best have your elbow positioned accordingly during the Backstroke. The elbow position is not merely a result of stopping at Top or End, its a geometric alignment in support of the loading action, what ever it may be.
Given the same Plane Line for both procedures you have two different Right Elbow Positions. One inline with the Top of the Shaft , one inline with the Aft. Both having corresponding #3pp locations and ideally a "c" shaped index finger ala Hogan's right hand grip. You need your knuckle on the top , your first joint on the aft. Especially if you Drag then Drive.
In the Royal and Ancient Golf Clubs museum at St Andrews they have bronze casts of the grips of Open winners past .............every one of them had this alignment to their right index finger.
Hogan even aligned his knuckle and first joint in a similar fashion, when tee'n up a ball! Coincidence?
Its weird how when you learn about the alignments you start seeing them everywhere. Or maybe Im crazy.
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