Yes, but oddly, in my experience not due to a designer or greenskeeper wishing to make a hole difficult, but rather due to ignorance and/or resources.
One hole in particular I play (often) is a 450 yd par 4 that has been 'redesigned' a few times to accommodate redesign and rerouting of nearby holes.
It has a huge tree smack dab in the middle of the fairway, leaving only 5 yards of fairway left and 20 yards of fairway right. If you go left of the tree, you have an uphill blind shot from the rough. If you go right of the tree your ball will go through the fairway into the rough on a 45 degree sidehill lie.
From there, the approach shot is into an elevated green built into the side of a steep hill, with a large mound blocking the right 1/3 of the green. The green itself is sloped severely from right to left and front to back. I have hit 9-irons dead solid perfect, 9 miles in the air, that will not hold the green.
The irony is the rest of the golf course is a pushover, making this hole completely out of place.
Last edited by Andy R : 05-07-2009 at 07:10 PM.
Reason: typo
Yes, but oddly, in my experience not due to a designer or greenskeeper wishing to make a hole difficult, but rather due to ignorance and/or resources.
One hole in particular I play (often) is a 450 yd par 4 that has been 'redesigned' a few times to accommodate redesign and rerouting of nearby holes.
It has a huge tree smack dab in the middle of the fairway, leaving only 5 yards of fairway left and 20 yards of fairway right. If you go left of the tree, you have an uphill blind shot from the rough. If you go right of the tree your ball will go through the fairway into the rough on a 45 degree sidehill lie.
From there, the approach shot is into an elevated green built into the side of a steep hill, with a large mound blocking the right 1/3 of the green. The green itself is sloped severely from right to left and front to back. I have hit 9-irons dead solid perfect, 9 miles in the air, that will not hold the green.
The irony is the rest of the golf course is a pushover, making this hole completely out of place.
I totally agree. They don't want to spend the money to remove it.
The guy who owns this course might market it better if he stopped watering, everyone must use rented hickory shafted clubs and low compression golf balls, and sell it as an experience to enjoy and have events and competitions. Charge more for it. (people lack imagination, if you can't compete with the big golf courses, them make them compete with you.)
If they would just design courses to follow the lay of the land more or less and stop watering them so much, we would play a game much closer to that of the Bobby Jones era and I bet that this golf course would be fun to play wth pitch and runs, etc. It's fun to have the ball roll out a bit on a drive or long iron. It brings back a dimension of the game we've seem to have lost.
The pros' get their fairways rolled and firmed up a bit for tournaments but the game was historically played on fast fairways and slow greens. Now we have slow fairways and fast greens. Things have changed. I think that course designers generally go too far nowadays.
the game was historically played on fast fairways and slow greens. Now we have slow fairways and fast greens. Things have changed. I think that course designers generally go too far nowadays.
As I Golf Course Superintendent you have NO idea how much I LOVE to hear statments like this
unlike LAST SUMMER when it was 105 and humid(80%) on bentgrass greens all I heard was CUT THE GREENS WE WANT 11 ON THE STIMP
As the greens speed up so the pace of play slows! Slow play and socialism gets me fired up! Afterall the molasses mob are spending "your" time! Golf enterprises are suffering all over right now. My pro was carping about the slow play etc. I pointed out the greens were a shade of blue, the rough was worthy of a US Open, and in attempt to cut maintainance costs new "native areas" have sprung up! I think carts also slow play up. Well, at least people that do not know how to use a cart properly. I do not know how many times I see guys sitting in the cart watching their playing partner hit then wait to be chauffered to their ball...only then does their shot prep begin.
Okies tips for speedy play:
1. Play a round with Okie (usually in the 2:45 hour range)
2. Walk (I am starting to see more pull carts in these parts)
3. Play matchplay. Save putting everything out for the "monthly medal", or something, otherwise it is like playing doubles in tennis with a singles court...many forced errors!
4. Ditch the FJ Classics, opt for the "joggers"
5. Walk like Nicklaus...pull the trigger like Wadkins!
6. One practice swing on full strokes...do downsing waggling while waiting for Deliberate Dan and Lethargic Lenny.
7. Never stop at the turn...your bag has pockets you never use...use 'em!
8. Starting reading the green 40 yards off, start reading your putt as soon as you step foot on the green. As a point of note I mark my ball but leave the ball in place (as long as it does not interfere with my playing partner etc.) This way I can prepare while others are doing their thing. I chat between shots but seldom ever on the greens where I am busiest. I leave the mark there so that I can adjust the sharpee aim line on my ball
9. I am not a big fan of hitting a small bucket of do-overs!
10. I NEVER help my playing partners look for their ball when they clearly hit it in a hazard of sorts, or where I might find a copperhead!
11. I only use the 5 minute rule when in a competitive setting, otherwise it is a 3 minute deal...tops. I have been known to encourage my playing partners to watch their own ball down!
12. I do excuse myself from my playing group if the going is too slow. I love golf...I hate gooooooolfffffff! It may seem rude I simply say "Thanks for the nine gents, the going is too slow for me. Enjoy the back nine!"
I know this thread was on course difficulty etc. but I think slow play is the biggest hazard of all!
Interesting note (not a jab at North America, but I have never played with a slow member of the British Commonwealth...slow playing that is!
As the greens speed up so the pace of play slows! Slow play and socialism gets me fired up! Afterall the molasses mob are spending "your" time! Golf enterprises are suffering all over right now. My pro was carping about the slow play etc. I pointed out the greens were a shade of blue, the rough was worthy of a US Open, and in attempt to cut maintainance costs new "native areas" have sprung up! I think carts also slow play up. Well, at least people that do not know how to use a cart properly. I do not know how many times I see guys sitting in the cart watching their playing partner hit then wait to be chauffered to their ball...only then does their shot prep begin.
Okies tips for speedy play:
1. Play a round with Okie (usually in the 2:45 hour range)
2. Walk (I am starting to see more pull carts in these parts)
3. Play matchplay. Save putting everything out for the "monthly medal", or something, otherwise it is like playing doubles in tennis with a singles court...many forced errors!
4. Ditch the FJ Classics, opt for the "joggers"
5. Walk like Nicklaus...pull the trigger like Wadkins!
6. One practice swing on full strokes...do downsing waggling while waiting for Deliberate Dan and Lethargic Lenny.
7. Never stop at the turn...your bag has pockets you never use...use 'em!
8. Starting reading the green 40 yards off, start reading your putt as soon as you step foot on the green. As a point of note I mark my ball but leave the ball in place (as long as it does not interfere with my playing partner etc.) This way I can prepare while others are doing their thing. I chat between shots but seldom ever on the greens where I am busiest. I leave the mark there so that I can adjust the sharpee aim line on my ball
9. I am not a big fan of hitting a small bucket of do-overs!
10. I NEVER help my playing partners look for their ball when they clearly hit it in a hazard of sorts, or where I might find a copperhead!
11. I only use the 5 minute rule when in a competitive setting, otherwise it is a 3 minute deal...tops. I have been known to encourage my playing partners to watch their own ball down!
12. I do excuse myself from my playing group if the going is too slow. I love golf...I hate gooooooolfffffff! It may seem rude I simply say "Thanks for the nine gents, the going is too slow for me. Enjoy the back nine!"
I know this thread was on course difficulty etc. but I think slow play is the biggest hazard of all!
Interesting note (not a jab at North America, but I have never played with a slow member of the British Commonwealth...slow playing that is!
Hi Okie,
Perfect Post. I especially like Tips 1-12. But #6 bothers me. Just waggle the Flying Wedges, then hit the ball. Otherwise, you'll lag more than my Clubhead.
Hey, when I played with O.B. last year, I was accused of slow play. I just wanted to enjoy a relaxing 3:15 round.
Psychological needs MUST be accomodated! Some people need to dither. A Tale of Woe: when Okie was just a sprout trying to compete collegiately (mediocre player in a middle tier program) I arrived sans a practice swing! My well meaning coach advised me to slow everything down with one or ten practice swings. Eager to please and anxious to remedy the ankst that slow play was causing me I became a "swish-swish fanatic" From none to never enough! A couple of years back I tried to get back to one or none...with a few more around the greens if needed. I used to see the target and PULL (as in clay pigeons!) Even if I had the game to be on tour it would end up being like the Sabbatini v. Crane debacle...every day! If I have an Achilles atlas vertebrae this is it! If you play slow you ain't no friend o'mine! Except Lynn he can play as slow as he wants!
Perfect Post. I especially like Tips 1-12. But #6 bothers me. Just waggle the Flying Wedges, then hit the ball. Otherwise, you'll lag more than my Clubhead.
Hey, when I played with O.B. last year, I was accused of slow play. I just wanted to enjoy a relaxing 3:15 round.
Who accused you of slow play? I dont remember anything other than your fantastic hip action and the sound of your solid strike.
6 Players. Rationed Tee Times. 6 hour Rounds. Come as you are. Double the Cost.
It's my understanding that on page 982 of the National Health Care Proposal being considered by Comrade Nancy Pelochio, that some Golf Course Clubhouses will be converted into Heath Clinics. Then you can take a number, play a round of Golf and not lose your place in Line.
Hybrid Mode
