I think that PA#2 and PA#3 release near-simultaneously in TW's swing because he has a late release. He gets his right elbow in front of his right hip and he still has a 90 degree angle between the left arm and clubshaft (still has a fully loaded PA#2) at that time point (image 1). Therefore, his PA#3 is releasing (under the control of the on-plane right forearm - as the PA#1 passively releases) while the left wrist uncocks.
By contrast, PA #2 must release well before PA#3 in golfers who use a sweep release or random release - because PA#3 release only occurs during the release swivel phase of the swing (when the right forearm moves on-plane into impact).
You wrote-: "Slightly off topic,the great pics of tiger,if you have a look at the travel of the hands between each thigh plus also the comparitive distance travelled by clubhead in relation to each other is there a corelation with the kinetic chain in golf swing?"
I don't understand your question. Why are you trying to relate the clubhead travel during the release swivel phase of the golf swing to the kinetic chain? What part of the kinetic chain link are you thinking about?
Pistol
I think that PA #2 and PA#3 are releasing near-simultaneously in TW's swing because he has a late release, and not because he is a hitter. I cannot see anything in TW's swing that suggests a hitting action. He has many swing features that suggest a swinging action.
1) He employs a start up takeaway swivel action that causes the back of his left hand to face the ball-target line at the end of the takeaway and the toe of the club points upwards - while hitters resist any startup swivel and keep the clubface looking at the ball during the takeaway.
2) He has an extra 1/4 rotation of the left arm at the end-backswing that gets his clubshaft to be parallel to the ball-target line. Also, the relationship of his right forearm to the left arm flying wedge at the end-backswing fits the pattern of a swinger rather than a hitter.
3) The back of his left hand is parallel to the plane during the mid-swing as his hands slide down the plane.
4) He definitely has a distinct release swivel action where release of PA#2 precedes release of PA#3 (although there is considerable overlap due to his late release action).
Watch this swing video and you can see that PA#2 release precedes left hand rotation (release of PA#3), which occurs in the last part of the late downswing .
I think that PA#2 and PA#3 release near-simultaneously in TW's swing because he has a late release. He gets his right elbow in front of his right hip and he still has a 90 degree angle between the left arm and clubshaft (still has a fully loaded PA#2) at that time point (image 1). Therefore, his PA#3 is releasing (under the control of the on-plane right forearm - as the PA#1 passively releases) while the left wrist uncocks.
By contrast, PA #2 must release well before PA#3 in golfers who use a sweep release or random release - because PA#3 release only occurs during the release swivel phase of the swing (when the right forearm moves on-plane into impact).
You wrote-: "Slightly off topic,the great pics of tiger,if you have a look at the travel of the hands between each thigh plus also the comparitive distance travelled by clubhead in relation to each other is there a corelation with the kinetic chain in golf swing?"
I don't understand your question. Why are you trying to relate the clubhead travel during the release swivel phase of the golf swing to the kinetic chain? What part of the kinetic chain link are you thinking about?
Pistol
I think that PA #2 and PA#3 are releasing near-simultaneously in TW's swing because he has a late release, and not because he is a hitter. I cannot see anything in TW's swing that suggests a hitting action. He has many swing features that suggest a swinging action.
1) He employs a start up takeaway swivel action that causes the back of his left hand to face the ball-target line at the end of the takeaway and the toe of the club points upwards - while hitters resist any startup swivel and keep the clubface looking at the ball during the takeaway.
2) He has an extra 1/4 rotation of the left arm at the end-backswing that gets his clubshaft to be parallel to the ball-target line. Also, the relationship of his right forearm to the left arm flying wedge at the end-backswing fits the pattern of a swinger rather than a hitter.
3) The back of his left hand is parallel to the plane during the mid-swing as his hands slide down the plane.
4) He definitely has a distinct release swivel action where release of PA#2 precedes release of PA#3 (although there is considerable overlap due to his late release action).
Watch this swing video and you can see that PA#2 release precedes left hand rotation (release of PA#3), which occurs in the last part of the late downswing .
Jeff.
jeff you could be right . Im only basing that on what a GSED wrote but anyhow he could be wrong. Maybe you got some stuff figured out better ..pivot must have some influence on the #3 roll out and hinge motion and how long the travel time and rate of clubface motion
I suspect that there is another factor that is responsible for the roll of PA#3 and that it is related to pure physics.
Have you ever watched an Iron Byron-style machine in action? It has a passive universal joint at the peripheral hinge point - where the club is attached to the central arm. That universal joint allows the grip to rotate freely in all directions. During the Iron Byron's release action the club automatically rotates to become square at impact. How is that possible if there is no active force causing rotation of the grip end of the club? I believe that it is likely due to the fact that the COG of the clubhead is not in line with the clubshaft, which means that there is a natural rotary force occurring with respect to the clubhead-around-the-axis-of-the clubshaft that causes the clubhead to automatically rotate to square by impact.
I suspect that there is another factor that is responsible for the roll of PA#3 and that it is related to pure physics.
Have you ever watched an Iron Byron-style machine in action? It has a passive universal joint at the peripheral hinge point - where the club is attached to the central arm. That universal joint allows the grip to rotate freely in all directions. During the Iron Byron's release action the club automatically rotates to become square at impact. How is that possible if there is no active force causing rotation of the grip end of the club? I believe that it is likely due to the fact that the COG of the clubhead is not in line with the clubshaft, which means that there is a natural rotary force occurring with respect to the clubhead-around-the-axis-of-the clubshaft that causes the clubhead to automatically rotate to square by impact.
Jeff.
Jeff there seems a lot of factors involved in #3 accum roll power and controlling it may well be the most important part of a swing..it seems a subject that is avoided simply cause its complicated
Jeff there seems a lot of factors involved in #3 accum roll power and controlling it may well be the most important part of a swing..it seems a subject that is avoided simply cause its complicated
Pistol,Soooo true,it is without a doubt why so many of us golfers dont practice it any where near enough as we should and indeed it warrants.The reason I so named it Station 23 is so I can practice it as 1 motion ,yes I do relise there are 2 definite ACCs here but trying to learn it as 2 seperate moves can be distracting to say the least.
As far as my mention of the KINETIC chain,it was merely a question in relation to a kinetic link on Manzella.s kinetic chain vid where the lower body reaches a point where it allows the upper body to "catch-up" so to speak to keep or maintain the kinetic link....my comments where more of a query more than anything specific...just an observation tis all...and my friend Im not saying Im right...Cheers
Hybrid Mode
