Here is a transcribed piece from the Tomasello video....
Tomasello: "See the formula for distance is velocity squared times mass = distance. Velocity squared, how fast are you moving the club---so it's not just centrifugal force, it's also what I call the whip (magic of the right forearm using a full sweep release)....absolutely it's the whip, it's a definite throwing action.....right from the top. "
Read 2-M-1 where it says..."Clubhead velocity is developed by Thrust, which is an Acceleration Force, and Thrust, herein, is normally constant regardless of the velocity it has produced. See 6-F-1. This Thrust may be Muscular Force and/or Centrifugal Force. Power is the total effective force that is impinged on the Ball---"
Is Tomasello far off?
Words are one thing, watching Tomasello demonstrate it is another thing....
Don't worry Phillygolf....there's lots of stuff in here that I have to read 5 times to get into my coconut. Good that you'd admit that cause I think that everyone gets this stuff so easily.
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
That's why Right Arm Swingers get more distance than momentum transfer swingers with their lower hand speed.
Could someone explain the difference between the two please?
App-reece-e-ate it.
Thanks.
-Paul
Paul,
Handspeed is not an issue of hitting or swinging it's a matter of release type....I have to believe most TGM students don't experiment with all three.....in the book, Homer talks about mastering all of the release types.
Hmmmm how does a swinger generate a full sweep release with a full swing???
Re: Hand Speed: Right Arm Swinging Versus Basic Swinging [ar
Originally Posted by tongzilla
Originally Posted by birdie_man
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
That's why Right Arm Swingers get more distance than momentum transfer swingers with their lower hand speed.
Could someone explain the difference between the two please?
First, we have to understand the logic behind DG's statement. Here are some reminders, and I hope I've presented them logically and clearly enough so you can understand it step by step.
(1) Ceteris Paribus, Momentum Transfer is more effective than Right Tricep Thrust for preventing Release Deceleration / slower RPM / slower Hand Speed / slower Belt Speed.
[Note: These terms are pretty much (but not exactly) synoymous and I will use whichever one I feel is best in this post.]
(2) What does 'more effective' mean? It means for a given RPM regardless of its actual magnitude, that number of RPM will decrease less, or not at all.
[Note: during Release, RPM cannot increase by definition]
(3) However, Right Tricep Thrust can produce a higher net Hand Speed than Momentum Transfer.
[Note: this statement is debatable. Lets assume it's true even though I cannot provide conclusive evidence. You really need two identical golfers to prove it, not two different golfers, which is what some research/photos is based on]
So even after its slow down, Hand Speed can still be higher than the golfer who's using Momentum Transfer. This is what's known as net Hand Speed, which is Hand Speed after Release Deceleration (if any).
Just to hammer this home I will give you an example.
Two Cars: Car A and Car B. Car A is travelling at 100 MPH and Car B at 110 MPH. Car B slows down to 105 MPH, but its net speed is still higher than Car A's even after the 5 MPH slow down. Car B is using Right Tricep Muscle Power and Car A is using Momentum Transfer.
This is only an example. Please don't take it as gospel and ask questions like "why can't Car B slow down to 90 MPH?" Well it can, but I will leave it to someone who's better qualified to discuss that.
(4) What is the Right Arm Swing? It is using the Right Arm to Pull the Clubshaft Longitudinally for Centrifugal Acceleration. So you're using the Right Arm to Pull, not Push.
[Note: you only push with the Right Arm if you're a Hitter or a Four-Barrel Swinger. The Four-Barrel Swing is not relevant to our discussion, because we're talking about Right Arm Swing (which can not be Four-Barreled -- again, interesting, but irrelevant)]
(5) This is where logic gets a bit shaky. Assuming that Right Tricep Thrust does produce a higher net Hand Speed than Momentum Transfer (see point (3)), we jump to the conclusion that a Right Arm Pulling Action (Rope Handle Technique) does also produce a higher net Hand Speed than Momentum Transfer.
Hence DG's statement above.
Now, did DG go through the same thoughts as me when he wrote that? I don't know, but that's how I am thinking, and I hope all of us here are 'reading on the same page'.
Tongzilla,
It's a combination of Magic of the Right Forearm, Extensor Action, and Release Type....make that a Full Sweep Release. With the right arm swing, the action at the start down is two fold.....it's down and out along the plane angle. The right forearm is pulling down while at same time the right elbow is uncocking outward.....the body (pivot..responds to the action of the Right Forearm....THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM). Divergent Force Vectors (2-N-1)....go to 1-L and study #13 and 14 then 15.
This is a completely different approach to standard swinging....make that swinging with Momentum Transfer....it allows one to use his or her dominant arm.
On the May 1992 video, Tomasello does a great demonstration of swinging down and out on the plane angle. Turned Shoulder Plane Angle and Straight Line Delivery Path.
DG
I have not once heard mention of the only Safety Warning that Homer put in the book. Just to be clear, we have nothing against the right arm swing except Homers warning in the last paragraph of 7-19.
"But with the Axe Handle procedure there must be a straight line piston action to avoid injury to the right elbow ligaments. So, if there is a twinge in the elbow, you are Swinging your right arm." Like everything else in the book, we take these words seriously.
This is why we don't endorse it. The right arm swing must be taught carefully, in person. Not via forums and videos, but by an authorized AI familiar with the procedure and one that can distinguish when it is done correctly and when it isn't.
IT'S A LIABILITY ISSUE and not something we recommend unless you are with professional instruction, Perferable with. Advisedly with! Imploredly with! 1-J.
We have nearly 1000 members and we want healthy folks seeking to maximize their potential visiting the Fit for Golf section.
DG wrote, "The right forearm is pulling down while at same time the right elbow is uncocking outward.....".
The only way to pull the right forearm downplane with the right arm while at the same time uncocking the right elbow is by right tricep thrust. What other right arm muscle could do it? This immediately sets up a sweep release which means that this right tricep thrust is putting a radial force on the handle and not a longitudinal pull along the shaft. But this is the very definition of a Hitting procedure.
The only way to Swing with the right arm is to thrust the right elbow down plane to a late automatic release point at which time the right tricep is relaxed.
Re: Hand Speed: Right Arm Swinging Versus Basic Swinging [ar
Originally Posted by tongzilla
(4) What is the Right Arm Swing? It is using the Right Arm to Pull the Clubshaft Longitudinally for Centrifugal Acceleration. So you're using the Right Arm to Pull, not Push.
[Note: you only push with the Right Arm if you're a Hitter or a Four-Barrel Swinger. The Four-Barrel Swing is not relevant to our discussion, because we're talking about Right Arm Swing (which can not be Four-Barreled -- again, interesting, but irrelevant)]
I like this part.
Now I understand what a Right Arm Swinger is. Cool. Pull the rope down with the right arm instead of PP #4 or w/e.
The only way to pull the right forearm downplane with the right arm while at the same time uncocking the right elbow is by right tricep thrust. What other right arm muscle could do it?
Miz,
Not to contradict my last post but you can use longitudinal acceleration at start down 7-19 and release with loosened wrists and the 10-3-K bat procedure. The checkrein action of the left arm will straighten the right elbow without right tricep participation. Yoda will need to help clarify release for us.
I'll set up a thread just for Right Arm Swinging but it will carry the Surgeon Generals Warning.
I have asked Lynn to reply regarding RAS release, but until then can we discuss other release procedures. There are many.
Tonight I reviewed the Tomasello-Dietrick tape in which Tommy discusses the move DG references. Interestingly, he never once calls it a Right Arm Swing. The essence of it is the Uncocking (Perpendicular Motion) of the Left Wrist, thereby preventing its Bending (Horizontal Motion). This is merely Lever Extension per 2-P.
Tommy does indeed talk about the move being Right Forearm motivated (from the Top) and views it as the antidote for Right Shoulder Turn Spin-Out. But, without his specific identification, it is impossible to determine if this is Right Arm Swing or merely the beginning of the Right Forearm's normal participation in either the Punch or Pitch Major Basic Strokes. Remember, the Right Forearm is the critical factor in each of the Major Basic Strokes, and it is under that Component (7-3) that the Magic of the Right Forearm is discussed. In fact, this is the term Tommy used to identify the move.
Also, Tommy's terminology (and demonstration) is somewhat suspect in that he several times refers to the Uncocking of the Right Wrist (as well as the Left). Lever Extension is a concept of fully Uncocking the Left Wrist, not the Right (which remains Level during Release as defined by the structure of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge.
So, whether or not Tommy is actually discussing Right Arm Swing is debatable. Which is not a bad thing, so let's do it! I'll send the tape to Bagger, and we'll put it up as the lead post in a separate thread. Then, with the caveat that the discussion willbe kept civil and non-personal...
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