I sure think so, and what Homer didn't explain, YODA has covered. A few years ago we discussed what is now being tauted as a new discovery. Lynn called it managed throw away.Advanced procedure, not for the faint of heart, but could come in handy. You can really see the Pro's working it with acquired motion...
That's what Austin claimed he did and taught. He didn't want the player to thrust the butt of the club downward on the DS, which he called "harpooning". Rather, he wanted the player to manually uncock the left wrist by spinning the right hand clockwise in the plane of the left flying wedge from the top, in conjunction with something he called a "compound pivot".
It is interesting. Yoda's Stationary Tripod seems to work very well for me though and I have had some benefit to closing the club face about 10 degrees. I do have an artificial front hip and I think that compensates for a slower rate of hip turn.
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Thanks, Brownman and Guru.
Yes, I'm a fan of Mike Austin and particularly his protoge, Mike Dunaway.
Mike Dunaway, Long Drive Champion, 1990 World Super Long, founder of the 350 club for the world's longest drivers
Accuracy, driving 375 yard par-4 green.
Before Zenolink and K-vest and TPI there was Mike Austin, PhD of Kinesiology which some have dubbed Austinology.
Before discovering TGM at this site through Iseekgolf and the Guru (a best mate, BFF, talk almost daily) I used first Ballard and then Austin and won far more than my fair share of handicap flight trophys and gift certificates and qualifiers for advanced competition with a good partner.
Whoof, reading the stuff on that link made my head woozy. JeffMann, right? He got some things wrong. A little full of himself.
Let's cut to the chase.
I do not believe the illustration of Mike earlier with weight lines on it is characteristic. No one ever said "head over right foot". Quite the contrary, Mike Austin said his secret compound pivot, a slide/turn and a slide/turn, was the only way to keep the head still. His key was the navel, the center of mass, right foot to left foot, and hit the wall to let the shoulders take off.
The image is one of a pendulum of the pelvic girdle under the 7th vertebrae. They use a lot of knee and foot action in a marking time manner, toward the ball. Jaacob Bowden, long drive competitor, "It's so much easier on my body than the classically taught swing. It's as easy as walking."
Mike was a swinger and turned the entire left arm 1/4 turn to lay the shaft and clubface on plane very early on. "A 5-yr old child could do that." MA Used a muscle at the top of his left shoulder to do it.
That preserves the left wrist shape rather than arching it.
Then he raised the arm to shoulder level and spun the flywheel with the shoulders. He said "Throw it around the circle."
I didn't understand what that meant and Dunaway didn't help much talking about the acceleration of gravity on the club. It just recently dawned on me. Mike was laying off the shaft in startdown which feels an awful lot like throwing it around the circle. You can see it in every swing on this video:
Young Mike Austin
Poetry in motion. Imagine a wrist throw from the Top. Still he's spinning the flywheel as a spoke off the spine axis with the shoulders. I don't know if he added any with the right arm on the way down or not. No evidence, but maybe. George Hibbard thought so as a student of Mike's.
515 yards in a senior event in Las Vegas at the age of 64 with a wooden headed club. Member of Mike Dunaway's 350 club for long drivers well into his 70s until he had a stroke that paralyzed his right side. He continued to instruct as seen on YouTube clips until he died.
Mike was big on measuring to the ball shaking all the wrist cock out first, like Jimmy Ballard. Uncock the wrists with the shaft until you feel a detente, a resistance, bend at the hips until it gets close to the ball but you can't reach it, then bend the knees to finally measure to the ball. Evershed did this also.
Now knowing TGM and Mike Austin's pivot and Zenolink, Scott's a good friend, great guy and I believe everything he says, we could advise an improvement over Mike but along the same lines.
Dunaway said right hip to 4 o'clock, right hip to 10 o'clock standing in the middle of a clock with 12 o'clock on the ball. i.e. on the 9 to 3 line. And "Throw it around the circle".
If Austin is really stacked on that right leg/hip joint then he's lost his ground forces, particularly with a "turn" at the end of the slide. We want internal turning, not external rotation. One would expect that if he was on it very long he'd fall off inwardly toward the target.
So let's change it. I'd focus on the navel, just above the center of mass. The navel should move along the stance line. So keep the head stationary ("7th vertebrae" MA) and move the navel to just inside the right instep. Feel the shear forces building up in the right foot, where Hogan had an extra cleat installed, inside ball and inside heel.
Now move the navel across the stance line to the inside of the left foot where you should feel the ground shear forces build up under the left foot which should be angled out about 30 degrees to receive that force direction. That'll put your hips open about 20 degrees and ideally at impact the shoulders'll be the same. Keep the knees bent both ways.
And that's what I do. I take the grip and all alignments in that impact position with the built-in forward lean of the shaft pointing to the left shoulder to precisely locate the ball for that club.
The right forearm must be thrown or driven right back to this location for impact.
The laid-off shaft does a few good things.
First, it negates any effects of OTT.
Secondly, it promotes the idea that we're swinging on an arc not trying to hit the ball with a square clubface for any distance along the target line on a flat spot in the circle.
Thirdly, it helps prevent throwaway because you can't throw it away until you roll the hands into impact, for instance running out of right arm and quitting.
According to "Smiley" Jones as soon as Ben Hogan got out of the hospital he went to see Mike Austin and they played together at the Bel Air Country Club for a week. Wonder what they talked about. We know Hogan was there for counsel.
Hogan laid off the shaft in startdown, as do many big hitters, like Sergio, Singapore Slinger Justin Tang, ace TGM instructor, and many long drive competitors. Hmmm.
Holy smokes Loren. I've not had any desire to study Mr. Austin until now. Thank you for the education and for fueling the fire. This may be a great learning experience for us all.
Cheers my friend!
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I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Does MIke Austin ever fully define what we would call his Release Trigger or Throw. In the one tape called "Golf's biggest Lie" it sure sounds like a Left Wrist Throw as you say. He even seems to demonstrate a Sequenced Release. He maintained he threw it from the top but in film he shows some delay of course.
Homer did say "From Top, Delivery Line Uncocking Prep. Delivery Line Roll Prep ". With the special emphasis on the Roll of course. Sorry if I sound like a book literate , I only mean to point out that his Austin throw out method as I understand it is not inconsistent with Homer.
Only with Automatic Snap Release is there no "starting to hit". See 6-H-0 B. Something a lot of guys miss for some reason when they label tgm.
I personally love his notion of throwing the club out. Throwout not Throwaway being key. With a Roll at the bottom of course. Sure sounds like a Swingers on plane Throwout of #2 Angle followed by a Roll. The Swingers Flail. Reminds me of LYnns hammer video.
Interested in learning more . He hit it long with no thought to longitudinal or snap. My kind of guy. But did he Longitudinal? I suspect he did.
Does MIke Austin ever fully define what we would call his Release Trigger or Throw. In the one tape called "Golf's biggest Lie" it sure sounds like a Left Wrist Throw as you say. He even seems to demonstrate a Sequenced Release. He maintained he threw it from the top but in film he shows some delay of course.
Homer did say "From Top, Delivery Line Uncocking Prep. Delivery Line Roll Prep ". With the special emphasis on the Roll of course. Sorry if I sound like a book literate , I only mean to point out that his Austin throw out method as I understand it is not inconsistent with Homer.
Only with Automatic Snap Release is there no "starting to hit". See 6-H-0 B. Something a lot of guys miss for some reason when they label tgm.
I personally love his notion of throwing the club out. Throwout not Throwaway being key. With a Roll at the bottom of course. Sure sounds like a Swingers on plane Throwout of #2 Angle followed by a Roll. The Swingers Flail. Reminds me of LYnns hammer video.
Interested in learning more . He hit it long with no thought to longitudinal or snap. My kind of guy. But did he Longitudinal? I suspect he did.
Mike had a feel vs real problem and neither he nor Dunaway did a very good job of explaining.
He also said something else I never could understand, and Tom Tomasello picked it up verbatim, "It's all over in the first 18 inches." We know that clubhead overtaking will start about 60% of the way down but it seems to me that doesn't particularly fit the quote.
He disdained max trigger delay but he also did not throw it from the top.
Definitely #4. Shoulder throw, wrist throw. That's what Singapore Slinger uses, he said, with a laid-off shaft and snap release.
Mike had this idea that he had to speed up the clubhead to catch up with the hands so he could propel it into the mudbank his instructor had him burying the clubhead into as a kid without coming back with mud on his shirt sleeve. (Both-arms-straight follow-through.)
So, I suspect he's helping it with the right arm through the release area and it could be a bell-rope pull. A pressure point for that could be the mating of the last finger of the right hand with the first finger of the left on the grip. 8- or 10-finger grip would be useful for purchase on that, right arm straightening. A four-barrel right-arm swing? Why not?
A couple of things hit me, the steep angle of the shoulders going into release area, Zenolink's recommendation that hips and shoulders be open the same amount at impact, degree not important but ideally about 20 degrees, and how relatively quickly the right arm seems to straighten in the release zone. That could be normal though.
He's also starting the finish swivel right away after both-arms-straight. He definitely has a finish swivel.
Notice how the hips stall in impact fix condition, the shoulders catch up to even and then go past, and then the hips and right foot are drug up into the photographer pose.
Really starting to get just a tad confused here,need help to steer me back on course(no pun intended)
Three questions at this time.
1...MA took club back to "a bit inside"on takeaway,this led to shaft being across plane line at top,no worries to there,however,from midway in backswing he is further away from ball to target line,would that not cause a somewhat necessity to vertical lift to the top from midway back,especially when his hands finish above his shoulder height,elsewise,wouldnt he be too flatthus not enabling him to get higher than shoulders?
2..My #2+#3 questions may possibly be closely related enough to be 1 question,
At the top of backswing,does MAs R/forearm rotate clockwise on beginning of downswing which would be the start of the underhanded stone skimming action,could be felt as a "slap",or on the other hand could be felt asif he is preping to get into position to throw clubhead at ball.
Hope you guys can follow my line of questioning,or reasoning.
Thanks in advance Bm
He disdained max trigger delay but he also did not throw it from the top.
Definitely #4. Shoulder throw, wrist throw. That's what Singapore Slinger uses, he said, with a laid-off shaft and snap release.
Mike had this idea that he had to speed up the clubhead to catch up with the hands so he could propel it into the mudbank his instructor had him burying the clubhead into as a kid without coming back with mud on his shirt sleeve. (Both-arms-straight follow-through.)
So, I suspect he's helping it with the right arm through the release area and it could be a bell-rope pull. A pressure point for that could be the mating of the last finger of the right hand with the first finger of the left on the grip. 8- or 10-finger grip would be useful for purchase on that, right arm straightening. A four-barrel right-arm swing? Why not?
I love the mud bank thing. interesting. Radial is where the power is, Velocity Power as Homer called it. Max Delay may have a mechanical advantage for a given (but often lower) hand speed but you gotta release it . No release , no power beyond your hand speed, no leverage. Like throwing a club vs spear chucking it, throwing it end over end goes considerably further.
Why does the mud bank drill suggest a Right Arm throw to you? Not saying it couldnt be but just trying to follow your logic, Doctor.
This probably isnt the time or place for this but .... It touches on a question I have about right arm swinging or right arm involvement in general. Right ARm swinging is Longitudinal , Rope Handling but can it ever have a Sequenced Release given a Right Arm throw? In other words could you throw out #2 Angle, on plane, sequentially before #3 Roll with the Right Arm/Elbow? Could you alternatively Throw the Right Wrist and get Sequenced (I suppose you'd need to cock the Right Hand to do this) . If you can get Sequenced with Right Side involvement then you open the door to Hogan employing the same, possibly. If you cant then Sequenced points to Left Wrist Throw only. Maybe. Meaning slow mo film of Release Types could be telling or well suggesting maybe.
We're in lab right guys?
Thanks Loren nice talking golf and G.O.L.F with you.
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