scotty, get me an email, Stevie is still interested in taking the cube for GAA.
Everyone else, I think that biomechanics are one more piece to the jig saw. Scotty knows his stuff, play nice or he'll disappear. He has plenty of good stuff to share.
__________________ The student senses his teacher’s steadfast belief and quiet resolve: “This is doable. It is doable by you. The pathway is there. All you need is determination and time.” And together, they make it happen.
scotty, get me an email, Stevie is still interested in taking the cube for GAA.
Everyone else, I think that biomechanics are one more piece to the jig saw. Scotty knows his stuff, play nice or he'll disappear. He has plenty of good stuff to share.
GPStyles,
I am having trouble deciding if Scotty's posts are an additional piece of the puzzle, or being disrespectful to what we are here to learn. Your post is allowing me to give him the benefit of the doubt a little longer...
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Kevin,
My aim isn't to be disrespectful to anyone or Homer.
Homer has great information.
Kevin I had an accident which ended my playing career, when I made a come back I shot 108. I went to the best TGM coaches and no one could help me, my back hurt when I swung the club and couldn't hit it.On video my swing looked awesome geometry wise. I realized there was another piece to the puzzle and went searching and discovered biomechanics and physics. Now I can shot par and below, my back doesn't hurt any more cause I know how to use my body effectively. My issues were physics. I don't blame the coaches they were geometry not physics.
Even with my own students they weren't getting great results when I taught them TGM, there was a missing puzzle.
I'm wanting to share with golfing world another piece to the puzzle and if we are all honest with ourselves there is a missing piece of the puzzle. All I'm trying to do is share the missing puzzle.
Brian Gay has good physics I can tell you this first hand he had been doing this for the last 14 years before he went to TGM.
Greg Norman Has great Physics, Els, Price and Faldo all the greats had good Physics and we taught Physics.
Most of the top coaches call us in behind the scenes to give teach their students movement patterns ( physics).
Kevin all I'm doing is speaking the truth and reality, it's up to each person to how they perceive this. As I said I want to share the full story.
Kevin coaches our welcome to come and learn our world and then incorporate this into their teaching.
My goal one day is this will be become part of the PGA teaching curriculum for the better of the game.
OK . . . . I think this thread has some potential. But I would suggest we focus the discussion here. Let's forget about how screwed up you think TGM is as a book or as a discipline.
How about let's discuss what you have learned since your surgery and what you are teaching now. I'm interested for sure. All the TGM debate is going to go down a path that just leads to a bunch of tired arguments we've already seen before.
So what are you doing in your motion now that has allowed you to play pain free at a high level? And did golf screw up your back in the first place?
The GOAL of a golfer is to get the club head properly oriented and moving on the optimal path with the highest possible velocity. When the mass of the club head meets the mass of the ball MOMENTUM is transfered from the club head to the ball. Everything else is bullcaca.
For Scotty to say 'he was in a bit of an accident' is like describing Everest as 'a bit of a bump in the ground'!
Be patient with him, as a result of the accident what he is thinking and what he is typing are not always the same but he is a very smart guy working with Chris Welch who I believe is not so much at the cutting edge of bio mechanics but the guy who sharpens the cutting edge!
One thing I will warn you of now though is that just the same as you teaching pros charge someone for a lesson, Scotty does not give anything away for free so can only talk generals rather than specifics.
__________________ The student senses his teacher’s steadfast belief and quiet resolve: “This is doable. It is doable by you. The pathway is there. All you need is determination and time.” And together, they make it happen.
Had small back problems from golf previous to my accident. Although in my accident my whole body was crushed and left me fighting for my life. As a result of my accident every disc in my back is now permanently bulged.
When I made a come back I simply couldn't get into the same position prior to my accident. Although saying that my impact position prior put huge strains on my back any way and wasn't an effective movement pattern anyway.
My hips at impact were to open at impact this put extension on the trunk and hyper extension and hyper felxion on my spine.
In a nut shell I didn't stabilize at impact anyway.
After my accident I develop a lateral slide naturally as my bodies attempt to protect my back, this also put hyper flexion and extension on my spine.
(might I say everything I have mentioned above you couldn't pick up on video.)
My issues were lower body mechanics was the key root to my problems. Even prior to my accident.
First issue was I didn't have ground forces I couldn't grip the ground to create lower body stability at impact.
Second issue was I couldn't develop hip rotational speed and stabilize my lower body. So i had to train my lower body how to develop ground forces, stability and hip rotational speed.
Once I learn how to develop good lower body mechanics,my next issue was I didn't know how to turn around the axis of my spine and create separation so I could not load and fire my muscles and maintain conservation of momentum.
I had to train my upper body how to create separation, how to load and fires my muscles.
Once I learn to stabilize my lower body at impact this allowed my upper body to close so my hips and shoulders were perpendicular to my spine at impact.(hips at impact being 20 degrees open).
This then put no force or strain on my back. Also knowing how to turn around the axis of my spine reduce hyper extension and hyper flexion on my spine so my back no longer hurt.
Stabilizing my lower body also reduce extension on my trunk and reduce rotation torque on my spine as well.
also having stabilization at impact and being able to turn around the axis of my spine allow me to transfer conservation of momentum and create a better kinetic link.
This was done by dynamics and plyometrics, training my body ,this training wasn't golf specific, it was about developing movement patterns so my body learn how to move effectively swing a golf club.
To be honest I'm striking the ball even better then prior to going to have a crack on tour prior to my accident. My back doesn't hurt either.
There are a few biomechanic companies I don't agree with either when they say you should turn x amount of degrees etc, that isn't important.
What is important is how do we develop the movement patterns and dynamics to get our bodies to move our body the it is designed to in the golf swing and reduce injuries.
How do we train our body to create movement patterns is the key. Which is what we do.
Last edited by bioengine : 08-02-2009 at 10:33 AM.
Congratulations on your injury comeback. It must have been very painful and difficult. I'm sure that your determination to find your swing has led you to many great discoveries and sends a message to everyone about biometrics. I hope you have continued success.
I've read about Ground Forces from other teachers but I've only been able to find limited information. But from what I've read, and it wasn't much, it seems very different from the pivot motion and action that's typically taught by almost every golf teacher.
A couple of questions about ground forces.
Can you choose to increase the ground forces or keep them to a minimum?
Can you choose the "Section" of the Swing to initiate these Ground Forces? I'm looking at Chapter 8, the "Twelve Sections" of the Swing and am wondering where the ground forces begin to build.
Does a "Sit down Procedure" precede the movements that help create ground forces or is the "Sit Down" part of the Ground Force development?
Had small back problems from golf previous to my accident. Although in my accident my whole body was crushed and left me fighting for my life. As a result of my accident every disc in my back is now permanently bulged.
When I made a come back I simply couldn't get into the same position prior to my accident. Although saying that my impact position prior put huge strains on my back any way and wasn't an effective movement pattern anyway.
My hips at impact were to open at impact this put extension on the trunk and hyper extension and hyper felxion on my spine.
In a nut shell I didn't stabilize at impact anyway.
After my accident I develop a lateral slide naturally as my bodies attempt to protect my back, this also put hyper flexion and extension on my spine.
(might I say everything I have mentioned above you couldn't pick up on video.)
My issues were lower body mechanics was the key root to my problems. Even prior to my accident.
First issue was I didn't have ground forces I couldn't grip the ground to create lower body stability at impact.
Second issue was I couldn't develop hip rotational speed and stabilize my lower body. So i had to train my lower body how to develop ground forces, stability and hip rotational speed.
Once I learn how to develop good lower body mechanics,my next issue was I didn't know how to turn around the axis of my spine and create separation so I could not load and fire my muscles and maintain conservation of momentum.
I had to train my upper body how to create separation, how to load and fires my muscles.
Once I learn to stabilize my lower body at impact this allowed my upper body to close so my hips and shoulders were perpendicular to my spine at impact.(hips at impact being 20 degrees open).
This then put no force or strain on my back. Also knowing how to turn around the axis of my spine reduce hyper extension and hyper flexion on my spine so my back no longer hurt.
Stabilizing my lower body also reduce extension on my trunk and reduce rotation torque on my spine as well.
also having stabilization at impact and being able to turn around the axis of my spine allow me to transfer conservation of momentum and create a better kinetic link.
This was done by dynamics and plyometrics, training my body ,this training wasn't golf specific, it was about developing movement patterns so my body learn how to move effectively swing a golf club.
To be honest I'm striking the ball even better then prior to going to have a crack on tour prior to my accident. My back doesn't hurt either.
There are a few biomechanic companies I don't agree with either when they say you should turn x amount of degrees etc, that isn't important.
What is important is how do we develop the movement patterns and dynamics to get our bodies to move our body the it is designed to in the golf swing and reduce injuries.
How do we train our body to create movement patterns is the key. Which is what we do.
thanks! Now we're gettin' somewhere! So if I may axe you a few follow ups . . . .
1. Ground forces and lower body . . . . could you describe the "component" pieces that you used to revamp your swing from a physics stand point? You don't have to use TGM language unless you prefer.
2. You mentioned turning around your spine . . . could you describe the shoulder turn components as well?
3. And hip turn . . . what does that look like? Level, slanted? Does the pelvic girdle have to go forward and raise?
4. Could you discuss rotation vs. lateral motion?
Sorry to pick a way at you but I find this very interesting particularly since you have been able to put it back together since your injury. Congrats too by the way.
Ground forces,
There are two forces.
Normal forces are applied perpendicular to the ground.( your centre of mass or body weight.
Second force is called shear force which is applied parallel to the surface of the ground.
The Left foot shear force applied is towards the target and perpendicular to away from your tows.
The right foot is perpendicular are from your heal and perpedicular from away from your toes.
Lower body mechanics and hence stability can be defined by two components of movement:
linear and rotational. The linear component is defined by the interaction or the relationship of the center of pressure between the two feet and the center of mass of the golfer. The
rotational component is defined by the force couple created at the hips segment as a result of shear force application by the feet.
Under normal conditions, effective lower body mechanics for a golfer start with a shift of the center of pressure toward the rear foot as the club is "taken away" during the initial portion of theback swing. This shift moves the center of pressure behind the center of mass relative to an axis running along the target line. As the golfer nears the "top" of the back swing and begins transition from back swing rotation into down swing acceleration the center of pressure shifts forward toward the front foot. It is this action creating forward momentum that facilitates the production of shear force at the feet/ground interface. Ground reaction to the shear force created by the feet produces a force couple, which is translated through the legs to the hips segment. The force couple acts on the hips segment to produce torque and rotary acceleration.
(On force plates pressure line is diagonal to from right heal to outside left toes).This creates equal opposite forces. Ground reaction forces. This is what creates stabilization,hip torque and rotational speed.
Hips move perpendicular to the spine, they don't raise this is a illusion in golf. If you have slight right lateral bend of the spine, the hips appear raised or tilt cause they are moving perpendicular to the spine.
The shoulders are perpendicular to the spine they rotate perpedicular to the spine. Only time shoulders appear to be raised is from right bending of the spine.
In golf the only reason the left shoulder apears to be higher than the right is because the right hand is lower than the left hand on the club. In an effective movement pattern.
Bucket next time I will elaborate on rotation vs lateral motion.
Linear Mode
