Most who practice to not hit the deck will do struggle to make low point when it counts.
Not saying you do not. Beware ingrained practice is hard to shift unless its correct practice of ball striking routines.
If you did this on grass, I assume the club would be "divoting".
Yeah, no problems with getting down and creating divots these days. I was only hovering that high to avoid smashing the club into the pavers (as I'm sure you figured). On the course my problem was the opposite! Actually took some divots with my driver before hitting the ball! Nothing deep, and wasn't losing much distance, surprisingly. But I could see a strip before the tee on a couple of drives. I've been resting the driver on the ground but might need to start hovering it to start at the right height.
Chuck Evans: Years ago, when we first met, I was in Moe’s group playing in a tournament in the Florida “winter tour series”. After playing together in a couple of these events I said to Moe, “teach me how to swing like you”. He replied, “swing like you, not like Moe”.
It took me a few years to fully comprehend what he meant. I first thought he was politely telling me to take a hike and go figure it out for myself, then I realised that what he actually meant, was no one can completely duplicate the motion of another player. We all have certain restrictions in our strokes and what one player can do physically or mentally another player may not.
This is evident today with teachers attempting to teach Moe’s procedure. There have been no players to date that have had the success of Moe Norman! There are no players that have won any tour events using Moe’s procedure because they cannot duplicate precisely what he did. There are players that say they use Moe’s procedure but none of them actually do. They use variations of what they think Moe did.
People have tried to emulate Hogan, Nicklaus, Tiger, Snead, Nelson, and a host of others but they will all fail. The only way a player can exactly duplicate another player is to have:
The same physical structure and flexibility
The same mind set
The same personality style
This surely relates to biomechanics and the notion that there is a 'best way' for all of us to golf our ball.
__________________ The student senses his teacher’s steadfast belief and quiet resolve: “This is doable. It is doable by you. The pathway is there. All you need is determination and time.” And together, they make it happen.
Chuck Evans: Years ago, when we first met, I was in Moe’s group playing in a tournament in the Florida “winter tour series”. After playing together in a couple of these events I said to Moe, “teach me how to swing like you”. He replied, “swing like you, not like Moe”.
It took me a few years to fully comprehend what he meant. I first thought he was politely telling me to take a hike and go figure it out for myself, then I realised that what he actually meant, was no one can completely duplicate the motion of another player. We all have certain restrictions in our strokes and what one player can do physically or mentally another player may not.
This is evident today with teachers attempting to teach Moe’s procedure. There have been no players to date that have had the success of Moe Norman! There are no players that have won any tour events using Moe’s procedure because they cannot duplicate precisely what he did. There are players that say they use Moe’s procedure but none of them actually do. They use variations of what they think Moe did.
People have tried to emulate Hogan, Nicklaus, Tiger, Snead, Nelson, and a host of others but they will all fail. The only way a player can exactly duplicate another player is to have:
The same physical structure and flexibility
The same mind set
The same personality style
This surely relates to biomechanics and the notion that there is a 'best way' for all of us to golf our ball.
I think bioengine said somewhere earlier in the thread that when they screen top ball strikers they all have very similar biomechanics, even though their swings are very very different. The training I have received has absolutely nothing like a swing pattern to aim for. You do the exercises and they train the body to move more efficiently. For one person that might look like Jack, another like Hogan, another like Trevino, and another like Moe. But actually everyone will just look like themselves. There is literally nothing like a visual pattern. bioengine has said to me that visually he cannot assess people's biomchanics. There is no "look", no series of positions, no specific planes, no specific set up rules, no nothing. In fact bioengine made me promise that when I swing I am not allowed to think about "doing" anything. His recommendation is simply to have a visual of the result you want. Sometimes I cheat and just focus on a spot on the back of the ball because I am not good at visualisation yet.
I think what I am doing based on biomechanics fits exactly with what Moe said. You do these exercises and then you go out and just let your body hit it the way it wants to.
I am sorry if I am coming across like a salesman. I will catagorically state that I don't work for bioengine, we have no business or personal arrangements or kickbacks. Our only relationship is that I have paid to be screened and have a personal tarining regime supplied.
I'd never heard of biomechanics before, so maybe that helped because I didn't have any preconceptions. I would be amazed if in a fairly new field in such a complicated area that there wern't failures. Overpromising and underdelivering. People with dubious qualifications selling snake oil.
All I can say with my relationship with bioengine and the business he is a part of to date is that the results have been there for me to see, and for the people who I play golf with to see. bioengine has backed up what he's told me. He has been open with information and time to show me what it is he does and why what he does works.
Why I've responded to many of the questions raised here is twofold: one because it has helped me, and I know how frustrating golf can be, so I hope that people will investigate and find out if this can help them. I don't know what it's like in the US but bioengine has been prepared to show me why he's worth my investment. Of course it was still a risk because I'd never heard of anyone who has benefitted. I have since!
Second is because many of the questions and comments have seemed to me to be based on assumptions about what bioengine is selling and not what he really has to offer. Styles - I know you on another forum so I hope you know me well enough to believe that I was not having a go at you in my previous post. I think that when you heard "best way" you assumed things - maybe previous experiences with position golf stuff, or other "My pattern is better than your pattern" stuff. But bioengine has always said to me that what he teaches doesn't take away the need for TGM or golf pro teachers. But there are aspects of people's golf that his training is better able to help than traditional methods. For example, I have heard of drills where you try and have the feeling of skipping a stone. I suspect that this is trying to tap into our natural biomechanics and apply them to the golf swing. bioengine would say that he can help us go beyond tapping into our natural biomechanics and actually help us to improve them. Then when we apply them to the golf swing we get a better result. Golfguru has uses the analogy of throwing a ball many times. This is tapping into our natural athletic ability. bioengine's training will probably help me to be better at throwing a ball. And if I can bring that to my golf swing I will also have a better swing.
Not sure how much sense that made. But all I can do is try ... It would help if I could learn to say something with less words!
Daryl,
Here is the mis conception about pressure plates. Weight has nothing to do with pressure plates.
Allow me to explain. You have two forces normal force , which is your force going into the ground,This is your centre of mass (weight).
Then you have shear forces working along the surface of the ground. Left foot forces, one is away from your left towards the target.the second is away from your toes.
Right foot one force is away from the right foot,away from the target and the second is from your right heal.
It's all about how your press into your left side to create ground reaction forces.The ability to press into your left side and foot and how well you do this is what creates an equal and opposite force reaction. The equal and opposite force reaction creates lower body stabilization and creates hip rotation cause your hips to turn left. The continuation of pressing in to your left side and also create stabilizing at impact and create hip deceleration. This allows your upper body to close.
Predominately during the back swing good players with good lower body mechanics,centre of mass starts to press into their left side during their backswing.
It's not about transfering weight this is a myth. It's your centre of mass moving into your left side and the ability to press into your left side.
When people see pressure plate data and see pressure is moving to the left side they mistake this these forces being their weight.
Not weight it's forces.
So what happens every tries to transfer the weight. Not good.
To achieve this your have to train your body how to create ground forces. We have done researching trying to physically trying to do it and we can't make it happen.
Good stuff here . . . . Very nice . . . . now the question is how and how much . . . Does the shoulder tilt have anything to do with how much you press forward?
Good post . . . comentary on the pics is welcome.
Check the left knee in this sequence . . .
He didn't do it anything like he demonstrated . . . check the tilt in the shoulders . . . if he actually did this you'da never heard of him . . . course maybe that's what he did before the secret? Compare the shoulders in the pics above this . . . WAY DIFFERENT.
Maybe one of the best Hogan pics I've seen . . . AWESOME. Check out the #3 angle and the clubface . . . BEAUTIFUL!!!!
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 08-12-2009 at 09:13 AM.
No Pivot. Zone 1 not functional. You're not Balanced.
"Work" should be done with the Lower Body and Core Muscles.
It's like riding a Bicycle. Legs do the work (feet, knees, Hips) arms and hands direct.
Shoulders are simultaneously part of the Pivot and Power Package. The Right Shoulder is Thrown by the Pivot.
Learn Zone 1 Separately. Learn Zone 2&3 Separately.
“Reverse every natural instinct and do the opposite of what you are inclined to do, and you will probably come very close to having a perfect golf swing.” Ben Hogan.
Seems like you an bioengine agree on something! That is my before shot and your points and bio's line up. There is another video called something like Practice Swing - 110809 (in Oz we go day/month/year not month/day/year like the US so 110809 was 11 August 09) which is where I am after abot 10 weeks of PST. Someone asked for a before and after so I linked to the before, and then people will either see the after in the list at the side or can link back to my homepage and find the after.
My PST exercises have been aimed (to the best of my understanding) at creating proper lower body action and driving the swing from the ground up around a stable spine. I'm no expert but I think the new swing is much better from that perspective - certainly from "inside" I can really feel how my lower body is starting the downswing and supplying the effort - in fact it feels like my lower body starts well before my arms have finished going back.
From Oz? Are both you and Bio from Oz? Golfguru is from Oz. Does anybody know "Tony" : "Ozgolfer" ? I think he's from Perth. One of the best guys I've ever met. I haven't heard from him in awhile.
Weetbix,
I've viewed all of them. No improvement. Sorry. You just don't understand the Pivot.
__________________ The student senses his teacher’s steadfast belief and quiet resolve: “This is doable. It is doable by you. The pathway is there. All you need is determination and time.” And together, they make it happen.
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