Per Homer,
"The Right Forearm indicates Plane Angle and must stay on Plane in the backstroke then down Plane either on "ARC" or "ANGLE" of Approach. The MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM dictates that the forearm traces the plane during the backstroke then traces the delivery line and visually parallel to the approach angle on the downstroke. There is also a "feel" of the right forearm "pick up" on the backstroke with extensor action. The Right Forearm cannot become on Plane until the Right Elbow becomes on Plane. The minute the right elbow gets off plane the forearm also leaves the plane. The left arm is almost useless except as accumulator #4 in pivot strokes. The release comes as the left arm leaves the chest.
Ball position is relative to the Plane and determines the actual Angle of Approach of the clubhead. Farther back for flatter, forward for upright. Ball position is also dependent on the design of the golf club and the individual. "
Yo can view your plane by setting a mirror to the rear. Use a dowel and the right foream pickup.
Plane lasers work better imo...plus they are far more conveinant:
smaller and more portable
easier to adjust to each club
harder to practice INCORRECTLY with
Jim,
I think lasers would be the way to go, if we can be sure we are on the desired plane. How can we handle that?
Lay something down on the ground as a straight plane line and then just trace it and "look look look" to make sure you're on plane.
To be honest, just trace the line going back and trace it coming down and look in a mirror and make sure your right forearm is on plane. Simple as that, thats what i do and i hit the ball pretty well
...but remember the Plane Angle Shifts(rotates up and down from its baseline)....Annikan
Huh?...How does the above fit with 2-F's:
"All the action of the Golf Club takes place on a flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane which extends well beyond the circumfrence of the stroke-in every direction. The full length of the Club shaft remains unwaveringly on the face of this Inclined Plane--Waggle to Follow-through."
...now that "SAM 2000" thing seems to go with the above perfectly as well as the geometry of the circle...
-hcw
Per 10-7, although the Base of the Inclined Plane stays in place, the angle of the Inclined Plane can change ("Shift") during the swing, just like when you open and close the cover of a book that is laying flat on a table. In fact, the Plane Angle can Shift a number of times during the swing. Whether the Plane Angle shifts or not, the Inclined Plane remains flat and inflexible.
rwh~
7-6 and 7-7 support your post, even acknowledging that it is not always advisable to adhere to a single inclined plane classification throughout the stroke. However, does not the "shift" bring with it the hazards Mr. Kelley cautions about and their consequences? And, is one of those consequences not satisfying the desirable shoulder/hand relationship in the downstroke of 7-13 as illustrated in the stroke clip? Or, is it satisfied?
The Heat,
"Full" Plane boards are great for a reference, ...but remember the Plane Angle Shifts(rotates up and down from its baseline). It's greatest use ...The Reference or Guide Line for all of our components...Why?...2-F Every component must comply....
Another $.02 that makes $.04
Annikan
Is this what you mean, that the club shifts to a steeper plane angle based upon the same plane line? Notice in the pic that the right elbow is still on the plane. I am having trouble reconciling this with the idea of down and then down and out vs. down along the plane.
It seems to me that the right elbow stays on plane, and the club and right forearm get back on plane by the extensor action putting them there. I am not sure how this squares with PP3 going straight back to the ball. I think I need some fog cleared here for sure.
This is why I wanted to build the plane board. To keep my right elbow on plane at the top, and to make sure I'm getting right back to the plane. But what should the first move from the top be? I guess what I'm really struggling with is the concept of keeping the right forearm on plane, and if it does go to steeper plane angle the concept of getting it back on the original plane.
Heat,
There is a major -- but common -- misconception surfacing here, and I will explain it using the first three photos you have have provided. [Photos Four and Five are out-of-sequence and should appear as Three and Four. Photo Three should be the final Photo Five.]
Regardless of the Plane Angle used, the Right Elbow -- and therefore the Right Forearm -- are On Plane only during the Release Interval. Almost immediately in Start Up, the Right Elbow (and with it, the Right Forearm) leaves the Plane. This is true even when the Stroke is on a Zero Shift Elbow Plane. It is the Hands and the Sweet Spot that adhere to the selected Plane, not the Right Elbow. In other words, though the Right Elbow's Impact Location is the reference point that establishes the initial Plane Angle, the Right Elbow does not adhere to it.
In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane. This particular Plane Shift is catalogued as the Single Shift Variation (10-7-B).
So, the thought that "the Right Elbow is On Plane (with the Elbow Plane) throughout the Backstroke" is simply a flawed concept. The fact that the Right Elbow at The Top appears to be touching the original Elbow Plane is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the Hands and the Sweet Spot have arrived at the Top on the Turned Shoulder Plane. Alternatively, had they arrived at The Top on the Elbow Plane -- the Elbow Plane coupled with the Zero Shift Variation -- then the Elbow necessarily would be below that Plane. Again, whether or not the Right Elbow appears to be on -- or off -- the original Elbow Plane means nothing. In other words...
There is an Elbow Plane for the Hands and Sweet Spot, but there is no "Elbow Plane" for the Right Elbow.
ok, i see what you're saying...but then what is "inflexible"?
-hcw
ps-i know what inlexible means , my question is what about the Inclined Plane is inflexible?
It stays flat.
ok, then how does staying flat fit in with what yoda just said:
"In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane."
...ie i can't visualize how it can "gradually Shift" AND stay flat...abrublty shift maybe...i'm not saying one can't swing this way, just that i can't see how it can be on a "flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane"...but i'll incubate a bit more...
There is a major -- but common -- misconception surfacing here, and I will explain it using the first three photos you have have provided. [Photos Four and Five are out-of-sequence and should appear as Three and Four. Photo Three should be the final Photo Five.]
Regardless of the Plane Angle used, the Right Elbow -- and therefore the Right Forearm -- are On Plane only during the Release Interval. Almost immediately in Start Up, the Right Elbow (and with it, the Right Forearm) leaves the Plane. This is true even when the Stroke is on a Zero Shift Elbow Plane. It is the Hands and the Sweet Spot that adhere to the selected Plane, not the Right Elbow. In other words, though the Right Elbow's Impact Location is the reference point that establishes the initial Plane Angle, the Right Elbow does not adhere to it.
In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane. This particular Plane Shift is catalogued as the Single Shift Variation (10-7-B).
So, the thought that "the Right Elbow is On Plane (with the Elbow Plane) throughout the Backstroke" is simply a flawed concept. The fact that the Right Elbow at The Top appears to be touching the original Elbow Plane is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the Hands and the Sweet Spot have arrived at the Top on the Turned Shoulder Plane. Alternatively, had they arrived at The Top on the Elbow Plane -- the Elbow Plane coupled with the Zero Shift Variation -- then the Elbow necessarily would be below that Plane. Again, whether or not the Right Elbow appears to be on -- or off -- the original Elbow Plane means nothing. In other words...
There is an Elbow Plane for the Hands and Sweet Spot, but there is no "Elbow Plane" for the Right Elbow. [/quote] __________________________________________________ ___________
Yoda,
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have been almost pulling my hair out trying to understand this afternoon, and I really don't have that much hair to spare.
One final question to completely clear the fog. Should there be a deliberate effort to get the hands and sweetspot back down to the elbow plane? I think understanding this moment of transition may be a real help for me. If there is no concerted effort to do this, can you elaborate on a feel or key?
Thanks again.
I just had an idea, so I went and checked it with a mirror. At the top of my backswing, the slight hip bump causes my hands to drop, almost back on plane. This almost goes almost unnoticed in my swing, but for me at least clears up the idea of how it can feel like I'm going straight back to the ball from the top.
ok, i see what you're saying...but then what is "inflexible"?
-hcw
ps-i know what inlexible means , my question is what about the Inclined Plane is inflexible?
It stays flat.
ok, then how does staying flat fit in with what yoda just said:
"In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane."
...ie i can't visualize how it can "gradually Shift" AND stay flat...abrublty shift maybe...i'm not saying one can't swing this way, just that i can't see how it can be on a "flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane"...but i'll incubate a bit more...
-hcw
On the BS, when the shaft moves continuously through space from the elbow plane to the turned shoulder plane it traces a curved surface - a section of a truncated cone.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have been almost pulling my hair out trying to understand this afternoon, and I really don't have that much hair to spare.
One final question to completely clear the fog. Should there be a deliberate effort to get the hands and sweetspot back down to the elbow plane? I think understanding this moment of transition may be a real help for me. If there is no concerted effort to do this, can you elaborate on a feel or key?
Thanks again.
JN
You could consciously return to the Elbow Plane, and if you do, you will have executed the Double Shift Variation (10-7-C). That is, from Elbow Plane to Turned Shoulder Plane and back again to Elbow Plane. This would mandate an Angled Line Delivery Path of the Hands (10-23-B or D).
However, the easiest thing to do would be to stay with the Single Shift (10-7-B) and simply execute a Straight Line Delivery Path (either 10-23-A or C) down the Turned Shoulder Plane. To do this:
1. Mentally construct a Straight Line (of Thrust) from the Right Forefinger #3 Pressure Point to the Ball (or alternative Aiming Point).
2. Load the Lag with your Start Down Pivot Motion without disturbing your Hands and their On Plane Location. In other words, Start Down with your Hip Action (Standard or Delayed per 10-15-A or C) but leave your Hands (and the Club) at The Top. Failure to make this move is where the great majority of potentially good golfers go bad.
3. Finally, take your Hands and their Loaded Lag Pressure directly down this Straight Line Delivery Path toward the Ball or Aiming Point (per 6-E-2) in preparation for the selected Release Trigger. In so doing, you automatically will be Tracing the Straight Line Baseline of the Turned Shoulder Plane.
Incidentally, there is an error in the Delivery Path Component Variation (10-23) of the Swinger's Drag Loading Basic Pattern (12-2-0). If you haven't already done so, correct 10-23-C to read Top Arc and Straight Line (and not simply Straight Line).
Linear Mode
