This has really turned into an interesting thread, lots of info !! I totally agree that someone without a good foundation will probably not benefit as much, and I suspect this may account for the 20-30% who get poor results.
Hydrated tissue is happy tissue. When the muscles take up extra water they take it from other tissues in your body(hence the recommendation to stay well-hydrated during your time on this substance). In 1997 two NCAA wrestlers died while taking creatine and this substance came under a great deal of scrutiny----turned out they died from dehydration.
I agree,Vickie, that if someone trains appropriately, they should retain a lot of their muscle buildup after stopping creatine IF THEY CONTINUE TO WORK OUT!!!
The most recent post in the Fit For Golf section (from Physioguy) has the results of a study from the Univ. of Pittsburgh---it deals with strength and flexibility training combined with golf instruction. Will creatine help you hit the ball farther?? Probably will. Whether you will be able to find it is another question. I really think golf is like swimming---after a certain amount of muscle mass is attained it becomes counter-productive to performance of the activity. Perhaps a training program with "some" creatine, some weight training, some flexibility, some golf instruction would be best.
I wonder how much creatine leegee38 was taking when he developed "hammer hands"??? The journey continues.......... Dr Dave
I wonder how much creatine leegee38 was taking when he developed "hammer hands"??? The journey continues.......... Dr Dave
I had loaded with 30 grams per day for 5 days and was taking a maintenance dose of 5-7 grame per day. FWIW, I think research now indicates that the loading phase is probably unnecessary.
Once those forearms got pumped there was just no sense of feel at all. Creatine probably allowed me to remain 8-9 lbs. over my lean body weight without it.
I've trained with weights for more than 30 years and am now 205 lbs. at 5'11" with a 32" waist. Creatine isn't my excuse for a rotten short game now .... being old is!
I've been taking 3 Grams of Creatine along with 2 Grams of Glutamine and 54 Grams of Whey Protein on my workout days. It's a premix of the protein I use. There is definiately a need to make sure you are well hydrated due to the little bit of extra water pickup by the muscles. I'm certain I carry at least 5 extra pounds of water due to the supplement. I too am middle aged but work out very hard in the gym.
I don't think I can point to Creatine for the forearm muscle pump while playing golf. The increased blood flow to forearm muscles would be directly related to the amount of effort used in holding on to the club or maybe something else.
What causes the forearm pump? Squeezing the club, pulling a cart, carrying a bag, shaking your fists... .
Just curious.
At the time this occurred I was definitely making a concious effort to rotate my forearms thru impact, which may have contributed to the problem. I did not experience the pump without creatine, however. Basically, an extremely quick and hard pump was one of the things I noticed while on creatine. It took very little exercise to achieve the pump in the gym (which was a good thing!), but it took very little effort in everyday tasks for the same thing. My workouts felt very productive because I'd feel huge after just 2-3 sets, but I could get a pump in my thighs just squatting down to clean the wheels on my car.
What I really don't understand is the conflict between creatine theoretically causing cell volumizing and holding more fluid in the muscle, yet also apparently being a factor in dehydration and cramping. How can it do both?
What I really don't understand is the conflict between creatine theoretically causing cell volumizing and holding more fluid in the muscle, yet also apparently being a factor in dehydration and cramping. How can it do both?
The dehydration is likely an effect of the muscles infused with the extra creatine pulling water from the more vital body systems (cardiovascular, digestive) into the muscles. That's why you would end up needing to drink more water than you did before creatine supplementation. I'm not sure about the cramping; maybe the extra water is diluting the electrolyte concetration in the muscle. Any thoughts?
Creatine is a fascinating subject after all. Quickly, volumizing is about water within the muscle cells. Dehydration is relatin more to the vital organs and subcutaneous fluid retention. The restriction in the hands could come from the bodies desperate attempt to hold on to some water and swelled the hands during heavy use periods. This is much like the pregnant woman who swells in her feet in the last months of pregnance and with no previous or post pregnancy symptoms. Sorry, it's just the easiers example and I'm just coming in from a nutritional conference in North Carolina. I'll address this more thoroughly tomorrow, since it seems you really want the skinny. Vik
When i was lifting often creatine gave me exactly what it was supposed - 10% more strength in a six week cycle. I used my benching as the barometer. The gains also stopped right there. I was recommended to simply take 5 grams a day for the first week then 3 grams a day thereafter. There was a study at the time that indicated loading didn't work. To me the most important thing with creatine is perfecting the cycling. When i stopped taking it cycling was still an imprecise science but i'm sure it has advanced dramatically. I see Vickie likes to cycle it.
You got that right JohnThomas. Even with natural supplements it is so important to take time to evaluate the 'true' natural benefits of your work. I even believe in cycling vitamins. You were also right that loading has always been questionable. I've seen it go both ways in the gym but did have personal success with loading. These days the science is so much more advanced that loading isn't an issue with 90% of the products. I would even take a sublingual creatine these days if my focus was on building. But after the Peachtree Road Race, who knows what my next cycle will be. I'll let you know.
Briefly, yes Bigwill you're right about muscle cramping. But the abdominal cramping is actually too little water for the digestive process to complete it's cycle and the lower GI problems with cramping then just makes sense. Everyone who trains should drink more water than the average person and if you are a sweater even more and if you train outside even more. Water can be a tricky subject. I personally drink about a gallon a day. I have a 6 foot woman who drinks almost 150 oz. and won't give it up for anybodies argument since she hasn't had the crippling migranes she suffered prior to her water obsession.
I'll reply to this, as I have a little knowledge on the issue. Your muscles use phosphorylated creatine (creatine-ATP). Your muscles need ATP. If you start working your muscles, you have 2 seconds worth of ATP handy. When you use that, you have maybe 10 seconds worth of creatine-ATP. Your body recycles the ADP resulting from the burning of the ATP; makes ADP to ATP. Your body already has the creatine and ADP needed to make creatine-ATP. The physiology of your cells will determine how much ATP and creatine-ATP you can have in your cells. And that's it. You can take creatine-ATP, but it will degrade quickly, even if you take it intravenously.
Creatine has been shown to increase muscle volume through osmotic effects (your body very tightly regulates the osmotic potential of cells, and if you move some solute into your cells, water will go in to keep the osmotic potential of the cells constant). If you take creatine, it will get into your muscle cells. So if you want to look "pumped", creatine can help you there.
Now, on the "plus" side, if you want to think creatine might help, maybe by adding creatine to your cells, you might add a few nanoseconds onto the 10 seconds you have (on average)!
Now it could be, however, that since your muscles cells take up the creatine you ingest or inject, that excess creatine may interfere somewhow with the chemistry of your cells. No data show this happeneing because other than the osmotic effects, there are no data showing taking excess creatine has any effect at all on muscle performance.
My opinion is that taking excess creatine has a negative effect because your body has to get rid of it, and that will add a metabolic load to muscles cells that is not normally there. While it's there, that excess will throw off your muscle cell chemsitry a bit (it has to), but that chemistry is highly regulated enough that your cells obviously make up for it, as data show no effect of creatine on muscle performance. However, in making up for the excess creatine you could get indirect effects on other physiological processes in the cells that could mean something if the cell is challenged in some other way (because in dealing with the excess of creatine, some other system is compromised). Maybe, maybe not, but why take the risk for no benefit?
I am personally highly biased towards the view that you should let your body function normally, and do things to maximize normal body functions, without going to extremes. I suspect that people whose body does not function normally, and have to go to extremes just to maintain function, might appreciate such a view more than people who think that normal body function somehow isn't good enough! I'll gladly take normal body function till the day I die if it is ever offered as an option to me!!!
Hear, hear Ceasar Frostback. What a great post! Great knowledge and great authority, the man obviously knows of what he speaks!
I prefer a more holistic approach as well. More often than not I take people off the massive numbers of supplements (incidentally most of my people also come off their blood pressure medications and then their other little pills, too) and try to look more at food, and rest, and a balanced exercise program to maximize success and vitality.
I have still seen the product work but I also think your mental conviction is a great part of all progress in all of lifes efforts. So . . . I like a simple program and I don't take creatine but if I thought I needed to compete in a masters bodybuilding competition, I'd be tempted to volumize.
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