Here's a look at Billy Casper's action. For several years running in his career, there was much talk about The Big Three -- Nicklaus, Palmer, and Player -- but there was really a Big One...
Buffalo Billy.
Check out his Head Positon at the Top of each sequence...first the Wedge and then the Long Iron. Is it Centered? If so, that would be a Head Pivot Center for one of the great players of his time.
The Pivot is a two-way street -- back and through. What is the big deal of keeping the head in the center with very little axis tilt to the Top if you're just going to have to add a lot more axis tilt and move the head to the right on the way back to the ball, as Casper obviously does in the sequence on page 124 - 125. His head is almost over the inside of his right foot in the bottom left photo on p. 125.
Billy Casper's "Downstroke Sway" -- Fact Or Illusion?
Originally Posted by rwh
The Pivot is a two-way street -- back and through. What is the big deal of keeping the head in the center with very little axis tilt to the Top if you're just going to have to add a lot more axis tilt and move the head to the right on the way back to the ball, as Casper obviously does in the sequence on page 124 - 125. His head is almost over the inside of his right foot in the bottom left photo on p. 125. [Bold by Yoda]
In the Billy Casper Long-Iron sequence of post #27 above, did his Head Sway? Or did his Right Foot Slide?
For the answer, compare the Stance Width in the Release photo (the first at the top of page 125) with the Follow-Through and Finish photos at the bottom.
Long-time followers know that Billy's Full Stroke is characterized by a pronounced slide of his Right Foot during Release. That pronounced slide of the Foot (as motivated by the Hip Slide) may have been motivated by Billy's extremely Turned Left Hand in the Grip. Or it might simply be the result of personal preference. In any event, the "parallel to the Delivery Line" slide of both Hip and Foot is extremely compatible with his Turned Left Hand and "shut" Clubface technique.
For an example of a Head Pivot Center without the excessive Hip Slide and accordingly, without the excessive Foot Slide, see the Hogan sequence in post #26. With his neutral Grip and Vertical-to-the-ground Flat Left Wrist during the Follow-Through, Ben's Head is Centered both at the Top and at Impact.
Or, check out Casper's Pitch Shot sequence, where the momentum of the shorter Stroke is not sufficient to generate the excessive Hip and Foot Slides of his Full Stroke.
The bottom line is that the Head Pivot Center does not require that the Head move well back toward the Right Foot in order for the Hip Slide to effect Axis Tilt. In fact, by definition, it prohibits it.
Remember, TGM does not mandate a fixed Pivot Center. However. if you forgo its advantage, you will, in the words of Homer Kelley, "have to pay the price." For those who would utilize a Pivot Center, all that is required is that "some point on the body be kept stationary throughout the Stroke to limit the motion." He gave us specifically two options: the Head (including its Pivot-on-the-neck capability per 1-L #2) and the point-between-the-shoulders. He recommended the Head Center but in no way mandated it (2-H). So, pick whichever Center you want, and then...
Keep it as still as your own humanity and golfing skill allows.
In my opinion, when compared to the background trees, the head moves a lot.
But maybe not quite as much as you thought when comparing it with his Right Foot...right, Bob?
Personally, I see little Sway (3-F-7-D), but I do detect a slight Bob (3-F-7-C). Bobbing results from movement in the Back or Knees or both. With good players, that movement is almost always the result of positioning the Head at Address slightly higher than it will be at Impact. Thus, Bobbing becomes a necessary compensation.
Why do they do this? My guess is that, for the most part...
The difference between #1....is very little,and from #2 to#5-how far away are the trees?,how close is the camera?
There is a horizontal grass line in the background. Compare photos #1 and #6 and see how much his head has dropped. It's dropped even more in the Follow-through (#7).
Draw a vertical line down from his left ear . The left ear is quite a bit farther from the inside left heel in #6 as compared to #1 and and even more so in #7.
From this I conclude that his head is moving down and back from the Top into Impact and continues to move down and back even more from Impact to Follow-through.
If you all agree that this full swing (pages 124-125) represents a Head Pivot Center, that's fine. I just see a ton of head movement there.
If you all agree that this full swing (pages 124-125) represents a Head Pivot Center, that's fine. I just see a ton of head movement there.
Okay. let's accept what you see. Now let's see if we can convert this observation into information useful to the player.
Assume that Billy is your student and, with regards to his Pivot, wants to know, first, what he is doing now, and second, what (if anything) he should be doing to get better (and remember, these guys will kill for one-quarter of a shot per round). He also expects you to justify your recommendation.
Some tough questions need to be addressed:
If it is not a Head Pivot Center, then is it a Between-the-Shoulders Pivot Center?
In your opinion, does he have a Pivot Center at all?
If not, do you think he should?
If so, which one?
In other words -- seriously, Bob -- if he were your student, what would you tell him to do...and why?
Okay. let's accept what you see. Now let's see if we can convert this observation into information useful to the player.
Assume that Billy is your student and, with regards to his Pivot, wants to know, first, what he is doing now, and second, what (if anything) he should be doing to get better (and remember, these guys will kill for one-quarter of a shot per round). He also expects you to justify your recommendation.
Some tough questions need to be addressed:
If it is not a Head Pivot Center, then is it a Between-the-Shoulders Pivot Center?
In your opinion, does he have a Pivot Center at all?
If not, do you think he should?
If so, which one?
In other words -- seriously, Bob -- if he were your student, what would you tell him to do...and why?
Thus far, no one will even agree that BC's head is moving back and down from the Top to Follow-through. Can we get a yes or no on this?
I thought a head pivot center sequence would look like Diane in Chapter Nine [6th Edition]as seen in photos 9-2-1#1 (Preliminary Address), 9-2-2 #1 (Impact Fix), 9-2-10 #1 (Impact) and 9-2-11 #1 (Follow-through). She doesn't look like BC to me.
If Casper's sequence from the Top on pages 144-145 is, in actual fact, a head pivot center sequence, then I obviously don't know what a HPC is or what it's supposed to look like.
Long-time followers know that Billy's Full Stroke is characterized by a pronounced slide of his Right Foot during Release. That pronounced slide of the Foot (as motivated by the Hip Slide) may have been motivated by Billy's extremely Turned Left Hand in the Grip. Or it might simply be the result of personal preference. In any event, the "parallel to the Delivery Line" slide of both Hip and Foot is extremely compatible with his Turned Left Hand and "shut" Clubface technique.
For an example of a Head Pivot Center without the excessive Hip Slide and accordingly, without the excessive Foot Slide, see the Hogan sequence in post #26. With his neutral Grip and Vertical-to-the-ground Flat Left Wrist during the Follow-Through, Ben's Head is Centered both at the Top and at Impact.
Sharp analysis Boss!!! This resonated particularly with ole Buckethead because of the 10-2-D grip.
Going a lil' deeper . . . As a result of the Turned Left Hand the hands must go forward deeper into the release interval before executing the hinge action.
Is this also the reason we see Lee Buck slide so much deeper with his legs too?
I know that some have debated the side to side movement of Buck's head . . . But the most pronounced movement of his head was DOWNWARD.
Remember, TGM does not mandate a fixed Pivot Center. However. if you forgo its advantage, you will, in the words of Homer Kelley, "have to pay the price." For those who would utilize a Pivot Center, all that is required is that "some point on the body be kept stationary throughout the Stroke to limit the motion." He gave us specifically two options: the Head (including its Pivot-on-the-neck capability per 1-L #2) and the point-between-the-shoulders. He recommended the Head Center but in no way mandated it (2-H). So, pick whichever Center you want, and then...
Keep it as still as your own humanity and golfing skill allows.
Thanks Yoda. I think that washes away many misconceptions of you disliking the base of the neck Pivot Center (or "point-between-the-shoulders" as you put it).
I have one more question. Does that mean if a student comes to you without the concept of a Pivot Center, you will arbitarily teach him the Head Pivot Center since it's recommended by Homer? Or could you teach him to use a base of the neck Pivot Center depending on his current motion.
Hybrid Mode
