Standard Hip Turn / Slide Hip Turn
 

This is my first post. I've been studying the yellow book for about six months now and this forum has been a great help in my guided struggle. Thanks to all who contribute. You guys are fantastic.

One of the things that puzzle me is the difference between the Standard Hip Turn and the Slide Hip Turn:

Standard Hip Turn per 10-14-A is a free turn in both directions with a weight shift in both directions. However, even with the Standard Hip Turn, there also has to be a sliding motion of the hips to allow the weight to shift and to create secondary axis tilt. The Slide Hip Turn per 10-14-B is defined as a free motion in both directions by the sliding of the hips with a weight shift in both directions and a delayed turn. So Standard Hip Turn is a turn with a slide, and Slide Hip Turn is a slide with a (delayed) turn? Is the difference only the amount of slide? Or its timing? :confused1

Any help appreciated.

Slide Hip Turn Versus Standard
 

Welcome aboard, Par71, and thanks for this incisive first post!

First, a little history: Until the 6th edition, the Slide Hip Turn was defined as a Slide (in both directions) with no appreciable Turn.It is the action demonstrated in Photos 10-14-B #1 and #2. It is also the action that unfortunately remains described in the Chapter 11 summary (11-14-B). This oversight originated with Homer Kelley and has yet to be corrected by the current publisher.

As you have noted, the amended definition in the 6th and 7th editions is a slide with a delayed turn (in both directions). This new definition differs from the Standard Hip Turn in that it emphasizes a more exaggerated Slide parallel to the selected Delivery Line (normally the Square Plane Line / Target Line) prior to the Turn.

An example would be the Slide Hip Turn of Colin Montgomery. Take a look at the linked Swing Sequence, and the differentiating features of Slide versus Standard will be readily apparent. Note especially how the exaggerated Hip Slide (even though coupled with a Delayed Turn) moves Colin's right leg to vertical in the Backstroke and left leg beyond vertical at the Finish. http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/Golf/v...ence-Golf-Tip/

Personally, I use and teach the more conventional Standard Hip Turn of the first six editions, even though the posthumously published 7th edition now lists the Slide Hip Turn as the 14th Component Variation (in both the Drive and Drag Loading Basic Patterns / 12-1-0 and 12-2-0). However, if a student came to me with a well-executed and integrated Slide Hip Turn, I would not change it.

:salut:

Welcome Par 71.

Thanks for the wonderful, detailed answer YODA. I needed that as well!

Kevin

Lynn, since you offered a great insight....
 

Would you please tell us the benefit of what you would teach now, vs. Mr. Montgomerie's 8 time Order of Merit swing? Is there a physical problem with that sway, for example, or usually lots of power leakage?

I wouldn't mind winning the Order of Merit twice before I'm 60! I promise to put lots of LBG logos on my tour bag and wear all the hats and golf togs you care to send me. I will sign autographs after each round saying "If LBG could help me, just think of how it can help you!" I'll probably get a rubber stamp for that one, though and just sign my name. :dance:


ICT

Patrick,

Just variations, nothing wrong with it at all. Try to switch Montgomerie, are you kidding? One of the greatest players ever. :golfing_banana:



I'm just trying to learn the book, and what pieces work with others. That is where that answer was so important to me...

No right, wrong, or best, but you need to understand why.

Kevin

Thanks, Yoda. Your answer absolutely cleared the fog for me.

The "exaggerated" slide that Montgomery displays is what I've always tried to avoid like the plague. Much too difficult to control for me. I find it astonishing that 12-1-0 / 12-2-0 now recommend this slide for the non-expert player.

The Standard Pivot and How To Learn It
 

In a full week training personally with Mr. Kelley and a year of telephone calls before and after, I never once heard him recommend the Slide Hip Turn. During his lifetime (and in TGM's first six editions) the listed 14th Component Variation was the Standard Hip Turn. Ne'er the less, the Slide Hip Turn is now the listed Variation in the 7th edition, published 23 years after his death.

Emulate the Pivot illustrated in Photo 10-12-A #1 of TGM. Use Exercises 1 through 4 here to learn it: http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/thread4435.html. It is not the only way, but it is a sound way. In fact, it is the pivot of a list of great champions too impossibly long to cite.

:golfcart2:

A question for Yoda
 

Hope I'm not thread jacking;

When you teach the Right Forearm Pickup - does it all start with arms or is there any hip action and/or shulder turn involved.

I'm strictly interested in the geometry and physics here; What really happens and not where you put your mind.

Hula Hula
 

Unless the Pivot Center (Head) moves, there has been no Sway.

:golfing_banana:

Lynn, we will have a great time in April!
 

You'll say do a Basic Motion and I'll flub it up and you'll laugh.

You'll say don't move your head and I'll say "It was the limp, Lynn, I didn't do it on purpose!" And then I'll try to shift and fall over! :laughing9

I'm going to get the Flip camera working soon. Maybe we'll use it as a baseline video lesson for a long and fruitful relationship. The film will help the shock wear off! :) By the time April comes, I can have the equivalent of a full day's lesson with you.


You think I'm kidding but you can ask Kevin and Jerry, My limp has it's own zip code!



ICT