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Vickie: Distance building workout?
Vickie: I am going down the gym three times a week and want information on workout regimes designed to help increase clubhead speed. I am interested in your advice and any links to such workouts.
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Hi hue, The long and short of it is as I have stated in many of the posts. (Read the fast twitch muscle post, and any other, and you'll see a great deal of redundancy) While you can 'train for golf', the training is not a lot different than any protocol that establishes superior alignment and a balance of strength and flexibility in the whole body. There are some muscles that are typically weak in even a healthy population because of some 'standard behaviors' in our lifestyles. These are the lats, the glutes and the hamstrings but try to isolate these muscles out to the exclusion of training the other muscles is a mistake that will create bigger problems later on.
Put together a sound program that attends to all of the major muscles. Pay attention to improving the function of your rotator cuff muscles and be sure you have perfect posture. The better alignment you can bring to your golf technique the more effectively you will perform your intended stroke whether it's on the fairway or on the putting green. I have never found one workout formula or modality (weights, pilates, yoga, Arnold or otherwise) that is really perfect for every body. But if you are just starting you can afford to be more generic. You should take a really good look at your body (sans the clothes) and evaluate for yourself where you are weak and where you are strong and how straight you stand up. Then find a trainer (not a body builder) and start with the basics. I promise you, and all of my people increase their drive within three weeks, if you perfect your posture (i.e. your alignment) which means the strength of your muslces is balanced, you will see your distance improve. Yes make sure you stretch, increase your stamina with cardio/aerobics and make sure your nutrition supports you work and your play. For the fun of it here are the first exercises I would generically suggest Flat Bench Dumbbell Chest Press Bent Over or seated Row Leg Extension Butterfly / Pec Deck Lat Pulldown Hamstring Curl Shoulder Press (machine if possible) ____________________________ Bicep Curl Tricep Press ____________________________ Do these every week Abdominal Crunches after cardio 20-30 minutes of cardio 3-5 X per week (minimums) These are just the basics and I didn't tell you anything about weight or posture because everyone is different. The order is designed to allow you to have a circuit of training. That means that you would go thru the exercises one after another and then repeat if possible. I would do the exercises above the line to completion before adding the exercises below the line. You could do them once (one set), twice (two sets) or thrice (three sets). Build slowly and please make sure you 'know' the proper form. We keep promising pictures and promise I'll get on this. You have witnessed a beginning / circuit approach that should be performed with light to moderate weights and 8-15 repetitions. I am more advanced and train only one body part per workout but I do that because I am doing many more exercises with high weights and need more recovery. If you just have to have a model then buy a Men's health magazine. They usually have articles about abdominal exercises and look at various body parts with emphasis on technique. I personally would recommend you buy a comprehensive book on exercises and build your own program based on your evaluation of your body. It's your body - you can trust yourself. I wouldn't buy some generic that some trainer designed for the world. You will do a better job with a little support on technique I will be more specific if you tell me the results of your evaluation. Also Lynn and I are working on some exercises that are specific to impringing the form of the golfing machine that will help. Let me know how it's going. Vickie |
Vickie: I am just under six foot and was 10 1/2 stone my normal weight that never shifts (mainly ectomorph with a touch of mesomorph) . After two weeks of weights ( 3 times a week Arms ,chest,shoulder and lats one day . Torso ie lower back and abs another and pure leg day)and eating I am up to 11 stone which is the the most heavy I have ever been. I do all the excercises you recommended bar the bicep curl. I was under the impression that you should leave the biceps alone in golf and concentrate on the triceps. Looking at my body I would say my right arm and right upper body looks a bit bigger and stronger than the left (years of playing tennis). The most useful excercise that relates to golf that I have found is using a pulley system where I attach a rope and pull down as in the start of the downswing to about half way down. The machine is also set up so that there is a pulley close to floor level and I attach the rope there and pull from a little lower than half way down to the point in the swing where both arms are straight in the follow through. Both these are done with a golf swing set up and attitude. My plan is to weight train with heavy weights to get to 12 stone then speed up the training with lower weights and more reps for power when I get there. What do you think of that plan and as a trainer how to you recommend getting both sides of my upper body balanced ? I have been thinking of slipping in a pure left side only day to take the training days up to 4. I am getting a very heavy weighted 7 iron that I will hit balls with and will do a couple of Yoga sessions on the off days. I used to do yoga and am already quite flexible.
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hue, Let me first say that the pull down that simulates the swing is a great tool as long as you have your back adequately supported by your abdominals and you have proper hip and foot placement. On occassion I see people trying to do these type of sport specific exercises with more weight than they can do without creating compensatory body shifts that creep into their golf game and undermine the very goal they set out to accomplish. Don't worry about bicep work. If you don't keep a balance of tension around the elbow and shoulder you are creating an opportunity for elbow problems. Also it is the bicep that flexes your arm on approach so . . . Also realize that your bicep attaches to the top of your shoulder blade, so if you don't have strength and flexibility relative to the tricep which also attaches to the scapula.
The very fact that you have a repetative motion influence in both golf and tennis creates an impetis for muscular development in the much used and preferred muscular function. Don't give over you training to the left side. Instead, when you start a set begin on the left side, do the same number or reps on the right side and then return for a half set again on the left. In the process of bringing a muscular balance you don't want to create a new level of imbalance. Only do this every second or third workout and you'll be surprised that the balance will come in a few weeks with no problems. Be patient and let it work slowly as rehab always is. We may be off page here but I will tell you that your power comes from a balance of strength. Light weight/high reps increase your endurance which just means you can have more energy in to display your power as sufficiently at the end of your game as in the beginning. If you are talking about ballistic training that's another story. I like yoga and pilates and fedenkrais. You mentioned you also play tennis. The best way to keep balance during your play in both sports is to simulate your stroke to the left side as many times as you do in your game. Wheneever I change sides I put my tennis racket in my left hand and create tension in a poor replication of my traditional forehand and backhand. It feels strange at first but it keeps you back relaxed and your shoulders balanced. Ecto with a little meso is the best mixture but requires much more food to keep your weight up. Just eat more frequent, smaller meals to bring your calories up by 200-500 per day and I think you will see some added muscle after about four weeks. Again you want it to be slow because muscle adds weight but it's hard to see on a leaner frame. Sounds to me like you have a really good handle on your training. Keep me posted. Vik |
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Stick with compound exercises, lift heavy and explosively (with good technique) and stay within the 6-8 rep range. When I say 6-8, it means you shouldn't be able to do more than 8 reps, even when you try your very best. Excellent exercises are deadlifts, pull ups (if you can't do them, do pull downs), bench press, seated rows and upright rows. Add in few sets of barbell curls, reverse curls, tricep pull downs, and that's a pretty good program. Golf-specific exercise are overated and misunderstood. They claim to work your "golf muscles" (...your whole body?), but they don't overload your muscles enough. You shouldn't need more than 14 sets of exercises in any workout. Overload and intensity is the key. You achieve that by trying to lift more every workout. There is no alternative. How strong can you get by doing a few core stability exercises on a swiss ball? Hmmm... No need to spend more than 40 mins doing weights in gym every day. Remember, your goal is do get more powerful, and you do that by doing the above, not swinging with a weighted club or some other goofy exercise! IMO, most people have got their priorities wrong, doing all these isolated exercises in a very controlled manner. You and I don't have 5 hours a day devoted to physical training. Indeed, you don't need that much time to achieve peak golfing condition! One more piece of advice before I go: do not mix endurance training with weight training! This is such a very misunderstood area. The golf swing is an explosive motion....requires no endurance (the swing lasts about 2 seconds!). Doing 50 reps of pull downs doesn't build endurance, it's just a very very slow way to get stronger. So when you do weights, it's all about getting more powerful (i.e. stronger and quicker). For endurance, do cardio. I suggest reasonably high intesity (70% MHR+) cardio for 15-30 minutes for maximum efficiency (especially if you want to supercharge your matabolism) Don't get stuck in the middle. You get best of neither worlds! I feel this is going to be a very controversial post, and many people will have questions...you're welcome! |
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When I was seriously into bicycle racing, I followed a program that went in phases. It's been a few years so my memory is a little foggy, but as I recall it started with a few weeks of lighter weights and more reps. However, it progressed to the type of lifting you're suggesting--heavy with five or six reps. I've now grown an aversion to gyms. I just can't seem to stick to a program that involves lifting. So what I do now are mainly body weight exercises emphasizing core work. Some good info on it here: http://www.ronjones.org |
While tongzilla has some knowledge of the program he is presenting I have to say that the ballistic (explosive) training method and the concept of maxing out your weight so you can only do 6-8 reps is a recipe for disaster for the 'average' guy on the street. These workouts are effective and safe for a very narrow and well trained population. It's not about age so much as a well honed knowledge of training skill, recovery and nutrition. Can you imagine trying to recover from a workout like this? I can tell you it's brutal because I trained like that in my 20's before the fitness industry was as scientific as it has become. (At this time I weighed 120 and performed a free bar squat at 200 lbs)
I really don't want to get into a he said she said here but a more holistic approach will allow for safe and effective training for most golfers. Yes you have to mix up your workouts, yes you should keep the time to anhour or under and yes you have to keep challenging yourself. But in now way would I support lifting more weight everytime you go into the gym. Unless, that is , you're getting into bodybuilding as your sport. There are four ways to increase intensity in the gym. Increased weight, quantity of exercises performed in one workout, amount of recovery between exercises, and increasing repetitions with a sound quantity of weight. Mixing these protocols up within one workout and from workout to workout keeps you muscles adapting positively. Joint health is too important to compromise with an all or nothing routine unless you are competing in the sport of lifting and you think it's worth it. There are ways to use heavy lifting safely but I wouldn't think an open forum and maybe not a fitness referral for golf should proport such an extreme approach without individual coaching and supervision. Also the comment about the swiss / therapy ball indicate that tongzilla hasn't grasped the concept of core training. I personally do some pretty intense abdominal work and use the swiss ball in the formula. Core training is about balance of strength in the muscles that stabilize the spine and strengthening your postural endurance . Core training isn't about building a six pack even though you will if you are lean enough to see it. Also note that core training includes muscles in the neck and the legs. As the next post suggested, there are many ways to devise a workout for the same objective and everybody should approach it individually. The good news is that you do not have to max out in the gym everytime you go. Training can be a much more controlled and stimulating experience that moves you forward toward your objective and leaves you plenty of time and improved performance and energy for golfl. Vickie |
Yes, if you're fat, unfit, smoke, haven't exercised for the last 20 years, and the only sit-ups you've done in your life is by getting out of bed in the morning, then I would suggest a milder approach. E.g. start by walking more, do a few bodyweight exercises, stretch, etc. I assume most people are moderately fit, without any serious physical constraints.
Using more weight than you can handle will induce injury. That's obvious. Most people I see though, don't go heavy enough. I see them with these tiny 2.5kg dumbells doing 30 reps, hardly feeling any stress, pump or overload at the end! At best, they feel the "burn", which doesn't say anything about overload. Remember that the golf stroke is a one rep motion with about 5 minutes of rest between each rep! How much power do you have? I.e. what is the 'total effective force you can impinge on the ball' in a split second (approx time for downstroke)? Core stability is needed insofar as it prevents injuries giving you a solid foundation to make a golf stroke. Once you've built your core stability to a certain level, working on it more will not make you hit the ball further! Once again, research and empirical evidence has shown that the fastest way to gain strength is not by increasing number of reps, decreasing rest time between sets, increasing number of exercises, but by using a heavier load between the 6-8 rep parameter, and allowing for maximum recovery (usually 4-7 days) between each workout for that muscle group before stimulating it again. Ask yourself: 1) are you doing physical training just to stay reasonably fit, so you can execute the golf stroke properly without injuring yourself? 2) or do you train because you want to mash the ball further (given that you're already moderately fit with no injuries)? For me, it's the second. Which category you fit into will largely determine the way you exercise. |
As I stated in my first response email to tonzilla, I agree that the heavy/6-8 rep protocol is sound for a specific, special population. In my years of experience training golfers I have found that the most effective and applicable approach to strengthening the game is as I have stated . I think it's great to have a number of approaches represented and caution the reader to remember that a program should be personalized and workable in their life.
Vickie |
Vickie: Do the Power excercises build you up or just really power up what you have got ? After a month of building up training (Not Power training) I have gone up from 147 lbs to 157 lbs with a target of 168 lbs. After I have got there I am thinking of changing the training to power training. Is this the right way to go about things or do you suggest mixing the training before I get there. . I am much stronger and am hitting the ball longer and I have not started the power training yet although I have been working on my boxing power , training with Eric Teymour WBU Super Middle Weight Champion who is a real animal on the pads and in training. Training and being around him has had a big influence as my punching speed and power has gone right up and this has carried over to my golf game.
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After working with Fred Hatfield, Dr. Squat - the first man to squat 1000 lbs, I started switching up the training protocols every 6-8 weeks. There is a school of thought that you should change your training when you hit a plateau but the switch-off method is designed to keep you from hitting a flat spot. If you've put on 10 lbs of muscle in a month your training is working for you, I'd stretch it out. If it starts to feel less productive follow your gut and shock your adaptive capacity. You sound like you're having a blast. It also sounds like you have your consistency in place. Keep us all posted on your progress. You're training is at a very high level and even people who aren't looking for the big bench and only the big drive have to be motivated by your progress! Vik
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Vickie: The training is going fine and I am getting bigger and much stronger. There are a couple of other changes I have noticed. Straight after training when I have eaten I get very sleepy and want to go to bed. I feel a bit groggy the next morning. Also when I get hungry I get very hungry not like before almost like my body demands food. I HAVE to take some food out with me when I am playing golf . Otherwise I get a patch where my body feels like it has run out of fuel. I never had this before training. Is all this normal ?
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Yea Hue!
Your body and your brain and your instincts are matched up again. When you train and have a highly effieient machine (your body) again, you have to maintain a higher quailiy fuel and this larger man power requires more fuel than a smaller engine. So, if you don't manage your calories within your meals and the frequency of your meals you will feel hungrier sooner than your previous, smaller engine signaled. I think you've seen on several threads that, depending on your training and your body composition, you should eat every three or four hours. The typical bodybuilder eats between 6 and 9 meals per day, some within the three hour framework if they are trying to maintain a large quantity of muscle, beyond what the body might more naturally develop and maintain in a highly physical lifestyle sans the measured lifting. So yes, more calories are necessary to maintain more healthy tissue. Many people will note the increased metabolism with the larger quantity of metabolically active tissue, tha'd be muscle, and it means basically the same thing with a little more science. If you don't eat enough, if you don't respond to your bodies request, demand even, for food you will begin to catabolize the hard earned muscle, that means your body will break down the muscle and convert it into fuel. So if you want to maintain your work and still take advantage of your metabolisms ability to burn more fat for fuel, eat plenty of high quality proteins, carbs, and fats int he right proportions frequently throughout the day. And that means on the golf course too. Your post workout fatigue is tricky to answer because diet is influenced by your training, and most people don't train as hard as you are now. So . . . let me say first that all nutritional details must - and the more seriously you approach your objective the more true this is - be adapted to your present body composition, your objective, your taining, and don't forget about your lifestyle. In your case Hue, where we're talking about heavy training, building significant muscle size and anabolic friendly supplements the rules change significantly. The fatigue you feel immediately after your workout is an insulin reaction (rush if you will) that is created by such significant glucose (blood sugar) depletion during your workouts. In strength training the primary fuel for your efforts is the sugar in your blood. The body has a limited ability to store a back up, in the form of glycogen, in your muscles and liver. When you train very hard you use up the sugar available for even the work and the body, in it's infinite wisdom, recognizes your 'acquired' and consistent ability to use up it's resource and will begin to burn more fat in the fuel mix to keep you going, but this often just enables you to keep on going a little longer, and your mental tenacity increases and your supplements kick in and it is easy to get into a near hyperglycemic state which is just another way of saying low blood sugar. Now, you go eat a perfectly healthy lunch but your low blood sugar. [I'd like to leave out of thedetails of the insulin factor in this conversation for this post.] When your blood sugar get's really low and you eat carbohydrates that are whole and healthy and necessary, the body over reacts because of it's state of deprevation and sucks the carbohydrate sugars up so quickly it creates something much like a sugar crash. Have you ever have had a sugar crash?Or think of times you might have over eaten and you were sleepy, can you say Thanksgiving? Even though you didn't overeat after your workout, your body reacts much like you ate a heavy meal. Best avoidance technique? Make sure your pre workout meal provided enough calories to support your work. When you're building you don't really want to get into lipogenesis, oops, too much fat burn. You want 100% support for your work. Within the first 45 minutes take in almost exclusively protein with the smallest amount of carbohydrate, unless you didn't pre-fuel well enough and then increase it slightly. Then at 45 min add on the rest of your carbs. I typically use a pure protein powder (that provides 50-75% of the protein for that meal) immediatly after workouts, then I can eat a little sooner caz my body isn't breaking down a piece of meat. So straight out of the gym with pure protein product in a shaker with water (the products blend much easier now) and then by 20 minutes I can start eating the rest of my lunch which will contain carbs, the rest of my protein in real food form and some good fat. I recommend frequent meals (mini meal or three main meals and three snacks -- pick your language) to everyone of my clients. This type of nutritional complience isn't necessary for everyone, in fact not necessary for most people. Remember, it's all about your lifestyle. If you train hard your have to fuel deliberately. Everyone reading this site has a body that is continuously repleanishing itself. That means we are all growing new cells all the time. Just because you aren't growing in the same way as a child, your body is very busy maintaining itself through replacement. That takes nutrients and they are oxygen, water and food in that order. Keep the meals small, eat food in their most natural form possible, and enjoy great variety and frequency. It's so much more fun than three squares. Vik P.S. The suggestions I made to Hue require really specific proportions of fat, carbohydrates, and proteins. |
Just to add to this nutrition-near-your-workout thing:
I usually take in some carbs along with my protein postworkout. Usually it's a half-cup of oats and a Nutri-Grain bar/granola bar. That way I get some good complex carbs (oats) and also something a little more simple (the bar). So it breaks down to: 46g protein from powder 27g carbs from oats (also adds another 5g protein) ~25g carbs from granola bar Anyhow, I've definitely seem some good results in the past couple months since I started really monitoring my diet and protein intake. I try to hit my bodyweight in grams of protein per day and I make sure to drink enough water so my body can handle that extra protein. |
That's great Matt and yes I hope you read that your post workout meal should incorporate some carbs just a small amount initially and then make it up within the hour. Heavy training will allow absorption of higher quantities of protein. For the readers who are not training at this level please notice that Matt said he got HIS protein everyday. Your protein intake will be determined by your body composition (your lean mass ratio relative to your fat mass ratio), your workout load and your lifestyle. Make sure your calculations are right for you. Vik
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Vickie: I seem to recover more quickly after the workouts more than I did and feel less sore than I did the day after. Is this normal or does it indicate that I should increase my workout load?
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What you may be describing is your fitness level improving. Or you could need to raise your workout load. It is really one of those things you have to monitor all the time. The smarter you supplement, the more support your body has to recover, vitamin C is one of the best in theraputic doses. Stretching helps and just being able to oxygenate well will help. You may also be adjusting your lifestyle to the work. Maybe you are resting more or just better and deeper when you work. Have you reaised the resistence during this period of better recovery. I'm not a big lover of first day soreness or soreness that lasts more than two days. Extended and limiting soreness can easily indicate you are breaking down more muscle than you can rebuild. But if you're doing everything right and you're still growing and you don't have to suffer as much . . .Vik
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Vickie: I have been training hard for about 10 weeks 3 times a week and hard workouts. I am just below my weight target level and seem to have plateaued weight wise. Is it a good idea to have a week off training to let the body settle and go at it again? Right now I feel a bit run down having put in a big effort. Also I will soon be ready for power training . Can you describe some power training routines?
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Hue, I try to take off a week every six months. I am still very active but I don't go into the gym and I don't run or bike for exercise; again just activity.
The protocol for a power training routine is a bit beyond this forum. It should always be very personalized. There are plenty of books but I wouldn't ever plan a program without a lot of specific understanding of my physiological condition relative to my objectives no matter how long or short term. You might notice that everybody who has any training experience has a very specific opinion; I don't. I address everyone individually. This may be one of the reasons Lynn and I get along so well. While there are very specific protocols to golf, you are still working with a very non-specific physical and personal alignment. If you would like to discuss this with me furher please feel free to p.m. me. Vik |
I have had a couple of weeks off training . I had my family staying in England they came over as a big group from the States and Jamaica to watch Wimbledon . My body has had a chance to settle and I have played some golf. I am a LOT longer now and much more positive through the ball . No doubt about it at all. The weight training has helped . I am going to hit the weights next week to get a little bigger then start power training. I am quite excited about it as I can see the hard work has paid off and expect to see future gains for the work I am going to put in. I feel much better in general . The plan is to get a bit bigger, then switch the training to power training ( Vickie I will need some advice on this soon and I will take your offer and PM you on this) then switch to cardio fitness and flexibility training ( I have just got stretching Scientifically a guide to flexibility training by Thomas Kurz M.Sc. . Vickie what do you think of his methods)and then some kind of maintenance programme. Vickie: what do you think of that plan in general?
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I have never seen Kurz's work but have understood it to be very effective. I will try to pickup his material and give you a more specific opinion. I love flexibility work even though I don't see any reason to be able to do a split. Again, I love all things in balance. Good for you, taking the time off training. It's a hard thing to do for some people. I think you can get bigger and keep up with your flexibility and cardio, too. I always think it's a good idea to mix things up. A maintainance program that will help you hold onto your added size will be a more substantial program than the average Joe's maintainance. Your nutrition will help you there a lot. If you add some good lean calories during your building phase you will see results much faster. The general recommendation is around 500 new calories per day. A great way to do this is with protein shakes spread out between meals. One of the best times for a shake is right after your workout. If you time your workout a couple of hours after a meal then your body can use up the calories and there is some evidence that you have greater amino acid assimilation immediately after a heavy training.
Thx for keeping us posted and I will watch for your pm. Vik |
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