Reactive pivot
 

This is the ER and in typical fashion I am impatient so I will pose my question and then search the site for the answer... Apologies if there is already a thread on my bane.


Over my last three rounds I have felt a real command over my swing so much so i began working on shot shaping. then when I arrived at the range on Saturday to warm for my 4 man 2 best ball tourney I had lost it. I could not get my hands to drive the pivot. I was hitting fat irons and pop ups with the woods. My takeaway was inside and my hips were following the club back forcing my lead shoulder to drop. I couldn't create any centrifigal force on the downswing.

I hit the practice tee for about 30 min and more of the same.

I don't want to work bad habits in as I've come so far in the off season.

What would be a good check list to work through to diagnose this fatal flaw?
And
How can get my arms to work up back and in without starting my swing with the torso?

Background
I worked with a Ballard instructor for years and I struggle disconnecting my hands from my body now that I've left this method.

More back ground
 

I'm a swinger who starts at impact fix

Using RFT from standard address, as you fan the club back and up with the right forearm, the right hip moves straight back behind you and the right leg slant slightly increases, preventing a lateral move to the right.

However, I'm not sure RFT would work from impact fix. :scratch:

Have you tried simply maintaining the slant in the right leg?

This may be in the ball park of what I'm looking for, I read your post and tried a few backswings in my living room and moving my hip behind me seems to creat a ton of room as wellas allows me to keep my height with the lead shoulder.

Ill try tomorow while practicing and update you

Thanks

Great post.

My instructor has me working with 10-15-B Delayed Hip Action with pre-turned hips at address. They're not turned all the way through but get naturally "picked" by the shoulder turn in the backstroke.

MacDonald
 

The MacDonald exercises have a 45 degree R.hip turn. How does this work with a RFT? And Lag and Drag?

A 45 deg hip turn is fine as long as you move the right hip straight back behind you as you fan the right forearm up and back. Not sure what you're getting at with lag and drag. :question:

Lag and drag is a swinger's takeaway. I'm not sure if that's the same thing as RFT.

Ah yes, LCT - Lagging Clubhead Takeaway, where the clubhead lags the hands - that's definitely not RFT.

Yes, LCT together with MacDonald - doesn't this taste a little of Pivot controlled hands?

It tasted so bad the times I've tried it, that I spit it out! :sick:

Meaning - you don't use LCT or...?

No, I don't use it.

The right-arm-only "hit" at :37 thru :50 with the stick doesn't appear to me to be a Hit at all, because he isn't extending the right hand through impact with the right triceps. That is just a left arm Swing with the left arm detached. The "whap" is supplied with the driving right shoulder, not the right triceps - note that the right arm bend is constant from address to the top and back to impact, so the right arm is not straightening as it must if the right triceps is employed.

What actions make the lagging clubhead takeaway not compatible with the right forearm takeaway ?

I don't know, but I can come with my thoughts ...

If we consider the MacDonald exercises, the takeaway starts with the feet, L knee and clearing of the R hip. So far this could have been pivot controlled hands. But since the hands want this to happen and immediatedly gets to work, it is still a hands controlled pivot. But the club is not picked up as the first move. The work starts from the ground up. In that respect the club is dragged up by the pivot and then the hands and that's what also happens in the downstroke.

One difference may be that hitters carry the club back, not so much drag. In that respect maybe LCT is more suitable for swingers and RFT more for hitters(?)

But I hope the big guns - like OB Left and Daryl and others would shed some light on this matter...

In a normal RFT, the clubhead immediately starts up and in, outrunning the hands and preempting LCT. However, you could fan the right forearm up and in after the hands start moving back, in what could be thought of as a delayed RFT.

same here
 

My faults in my swing have been axactly the same as yours to a tee,I discovered that it was my shoulders were not following the correct axis through the swing,to explain it ,my hips were on correct axis (or turn)my backswing shoulder turn was correct axis but that was the end of story right there,from there it was a pure and simple OTT,i corrected it somewhat straight away by using the left step and bump. But the "BIG" thought was and is turning my shoulders around my spine ....just keeping everything centred around the proper axis............its working for me...hope it helps:golfer3:

Nice video Air thanks . IMO when Lynn says he's hitting .....he's hitting in the Homer fashion....active right arm extension but bent at impact, straight at both arms straight, follow through. Well thats what he taught me anyways when we went over hitting.

Help shoulder not getting back to plane
 

Folks

I originally start this with a question on my pivot activation and you responses were instrumental in some quality ball striking. So I'm back for some more help.

2 weeks back I lost all compression on the ball and I began missing it both ways. Just terrible shots high, floaty, week shot after shot. Lost EA and can't get it back, my downswing is a total black out.

Today I had to take a look on video. What I can see is my right shoulder fails to get back to the plane line established by the right arm and shaft and I'm losing my tush line in the downswing. My butt is a good 2-3 inches closer to the ball.

http://youtu.be/wknEyM9sNVw

What do you guys think I should do to address this and are the two related?

Loss of Extensor Action seem to bring the right elbow too far back, the elbow is a bit too far back in the dowswing (kind of stuck behind the body unless you slide the hips a lot).

RFT with more fanning and less early swivel should put you in a better position with more EA.

Thanks for the post

Your take is quite interesting to me because I have never really felt much fanning also about the time the ball started going both ways I noticed that I had a huge hip slide.

Other than "war chant walrus" do you have any links or videos demonstrating fanning?

Not specifically. I remember Lynn saying that it's mostly just sending the right hand to the Top but I don't remember if it was in a video or in the forum.

Lots of nice stuff Epawl.

Re your stance and start up from impact fix. You can still have a sense of lag and drag despite the fact you start up with the hands ahead of the club head. In my last lesson with Lynn (we're into double digits) he talked about this very thing. He told me that Jack Nicklaus in the video that accompanied Golf My Way (if memory serves) described a sense a feel for clubhead lag despite the fact he started form impact fix. Lynn also alludes to this in his video with Brian Gay on this site. The Melhourne / MacDonald drills that Hogan described in Five Lessons , the continuous swinging drill where you brush the grass in both directions ..... while hitting a line of balls (optionally , ideally) lends itself to a lagging takeaway . RFT in Homers terms means you are PULLING it back and therefore dragging it back with the clubhead LAGGING THE HANDS to varying degrees. Literally as seen in Hogan , Nelson or in feel only as Jack described.

Lagging TAkeaway was for me, upon Lynns insistence , encouragement , the gateway to what Homer called a "one piece total motion" . As seen in Dufner , Rory , Hogan , Nelson etc etc etc. Lag and drag in two directions.

BTW Lynn would have you point your eyes directly at the ball , chin down . Probably the first thing he would say to you. It'll simplify your motion , automate your stop at Top mechanically and give you a better view of the plane line.. When putting it will allow for both eyes to see the hole, stereoscopic vision ... imperative to one perception of distance ... it makes 2D turn into 3D. In regards to your finish ...... dont finish swivel with your eyes parallel to the ground . That will make your body , pivot too erect prematurely . Come up with your eye line more diagonal ...it will fix your pivot in finish .

IMO

OB

Thanks for the insight!

To recap your thoughts:
1. Chin down
2. Eyes exit with finish of pivot
3. Lag and drag (feel) from impact fix

Question
With my chin down should my eyes be parallel to the base of the plane or tilted to match the axis tilt at set up.
*** when I set my chin down and my eyes parallel my center of gravity seems to move back towards my rear and I feel a bit more comfortable with less knee flex. Does this sound like I'm on the right path? Some practice swings with my chin down have definitely shorten my backswing and based on the mirror my hands don't seem to be as stuck.

Any drills to learn the lag and drag from impact fix?

Here's the same swing face on..... http://youtu.be/zsVxvD9IDkM

Imagine your eyes as pointing straight at the ball, your face square to the ball on its own inclined plane . A straight on gaze at the ball. As you turn through the shot keep the same "eye plane " so to speak with your head. Turn your head on the same eye plane . Letting your eyes come up through finish in a parallel to the ground fashion makes you come out of your posture prematurely . Try to come up with a diagonal gaze , an inclined plane to your skull line , eyes as you follow your shot. In so doing , yes your motion will seem tighter , smaller which is as it should be. This is a pivot fix , Zone 1, job 1.

Drills for lag and drag from impact fix? Try the Melhourne continuos swinging , striking of a line of balls thing. Make sure to brush the grass in both directions . Brush , brush , brush , brush etc. The ball just gets in the way .. The intention is to brush ...... not hit at the ball, brush the grass. Research it on this site and maybe check out Bobby Shave on line.

I guarantee that if you had a lesson with Lynn he would get you doing this. Its golfs motion , lag and drag in both directions , alignments borne of continuous motion . Homer said that Lag was golfs secret .... this is the type of lag he was referring to .... lag pressure , lag and drag as opposed to common speak lag , left wrist cock. The body leads the arms, the arms lead the club, the hands lead the club head... at every point there is a lagging component .. with an associated drag creating lag pressure.

Lynn said to me once, after years of get togethers ..... just "lag boy lag" . Makes it sound simple doesn't it. Thing is few ever feel it. But Rory and Dufner to my eye have it in spades... Hogan of course too . Hogan was in Homers words
"the ideal " in regard to start down sequence , swinging , lag and drag in both directions.

In regard to putting and your "eye line" , "skull line "...... set up to a putt and close your left eye. If you cant see the path to the hole with your right eye because your nose blocks its view , you dont have stereoscopic vision . To fix this lower your chin or get a nose job :).

Fats
 

OB

Thanks for the help a few weeks back.

The head postion paid $$$ dividends with the putter, so much so my regular foursome have all pulled me aside and mention how great I'm putting.

My ball comtrol has left a lot to be desired lately and I'm hoping for some help.

Irons:
1-Every shot is blocked/ starts right of target line to some degree
2-I hitt everything longer than and 9 iron fat yet my divots are shallow except when I slide way a headed of it and then ill catch ball first. When I get a headed of it it's either a rocket push that flies a club longer than desired or ill hand the blade open and push cutt it.

Hybrids, 3wd, driver
1- pop ups, sky balls and stupid marks
2- drives that do get hit on the center of the face are right going right
This is the most demoralizing part of my game I'm 4 handicap struggling to break 80 b/c I can't find fairways and then when I punch back in play I'm missing the green.

EGAD
Youtube- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWvFRAnQ0E4&sns=em

Where should I start to fix this???