Originally Posted by MizunoJoe (Post 88572)

Geez, "good"?, how bout as GOOD AS IT GETS. :confused1

Of course, it does "depend" on whether or not someone shot him at this instant, which would result in a "bad" shot. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by KevCarter (Post 88573)

I agree that he is the greatest player in the world, without question, and I would love to be 1/100 as good. I believe he is having trouble keeping his driver on the planet right now, and wonder if this may be a contributor. No disrespect to Mr. Woods, just a discussion of different components...

Kevin

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe (Post 88574)

Kevin,

I just meant the position was as good as it gets, no matter who gets in it! :salut:

Originally Posted by JTillery (Post 88583)

Impossible for someone to say this is good or bad by itself depending on so many other factors........but IMHO as of now, Tiger is still struggling with driving because he has too much lean. Foley changed the pivot but he kept the lean /lag required from when the pivot was back. Takes a lot of up and back to line that up from that picture and very difficult to be consistent.

Originally Posted by JTillery (Post 88583)

Impossible for someone to say this is good or bad by itself depending on so many other factors........but IMHO as of now, Tiger is still struggling with driving because he has too much lean. Foley changed the pivot but he kept the lean /lag required from when the pivot was back. Takes a lot of up and back to line that up from that picture and very difficult to be consistent.

Originally Posted by KevCarter (Post 88585)

Snap vs Sweep

Perhaps why Hogan could hit it in the Fairway and perhaps why Tiger can hit it 320.

The game has sure changed, perhaps hitting it 320 is more important than finding fairways?

Kevin

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 88589)

So Hogan couldn't hit it 320 if weilding the same implement because he doesn't hit the picture? Is the assumption here that that picture produces more speed and/or power? If so...how come?

Originally Posted by JTillery (Post 88590)

Sure! Just not from a still photo.....that one in particular
Whether or not that's a "good" position would depend on (1)what type of shot he is trying to hit there:bullet-good position ......high draw bomb:bad position
(2) for a stock tee ball and neutral type trajectory and shape, PLANE ANGLE, BALL POSITION, AND WEIGHT SHIFT OR PIVOT IN GENERAL BECOME HUGE FACTORS

Originally Posted by JTillery (Post 88593)

Tiger may be able to hit it high and drawing from here.......but no, no one typing about golf swings. Lot of work to arrive at a shallow angle of attack from that position. Super quick release along with a literal vertical jump to help aid the throwout. I assume everyone likes the big angle, which can be rewarding......but there are some other elements. Left arm and shaft angle is only one element. What about that pivot? That spine angle? Everyone in this thread may be covetous of the angle assuming its a power aide, but if most people , as in almost everyone, got into that position.....fore left. Again, IMHO

Originally Posted by whip (Post 88597)

From here, Eldrick must COMPENSATE for the disrupted shoulder to ball radius caused by the bobbing of his head, (as described as a "power move" by his current swing instructor Sean Foley in THIS article).

Originally Posted by whip (Post 88597)

From here, Eldrick must COMPENSATE for the disrupted shoulder to ball radius caused by the bobbing of his head, (as described as a "power move" by his current swing instructor Sean Foley in THIS article).

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 88594)

So what exactly is the logic behind the "I want to look like that" would you say? We are still fundamentally operating under the assumption as you state above that that "look" "position" is a "power aide".....is it? If this picture makes some "goo goo"...and some say this is "perfect"....but you say that "most people" end up fore left....is it a model position? Or is it chasing a "look"?

To this point those that say "wow that looks awesome"....haven't effectively defended as I see it why it is "awesome".....

Originally Posted by JTillery (Post 88602)

Whip,
you are correct. However, if you start looking you'd be surprised how many great players do it. All the big hitters, and anytime the others try to catch another gear, they'll go down then up to some extent. Long drive guys have huge verticals. Can't do a vertical if you don't go down first. Is it a compensated radius you have to deal with? Absolutely.......but it s definitely happening.

Originally Posted by JTillery (Post 88603)

Great question bucket. All we've ever heard is to hold angles, hold angles, hold angles. So when people see an illustration that could be described as a "held" angle, they love it. Truth is, Tiger isn't attempting to "hold" anything. He's preparing to knock the fire out of something. Athletically, he just ends up with angle that deep because, we'll, that's more ammo to knock the fire out of something with. That particular element just gets a lot of attention.....but what's the difference in it and a slightly different pivot with a little less angle for the average guy. (Not Tiger, he's already there) Understandably, we still need roll at least to some degree from that position to square the face, but most of the business left to do from that position would be the uncocking, the number two PA, which will be sending the club down. (Particularly if there is "bobbing" down then up). Wouldn't be much different than having a bit steeper plane angle, or a more forward pivot, but a little less angle. Now trust me, I understand that most players and all bad players have no lag, no lead, and bent left wrists before the balls off the face. I think because of this, that Tiger position is viewed as the anti hack, the anti throwaway, etc. Its also validated because almost all the good players get into a position at least more similar to that than left arm and shaft in line two feet before the ball. The deal though, is that zero of them are trying to get into that position. None of them are trying to hold angles. Even if they say so for a playing lessons for the pros or something on golf channel. Never crosses their minds in the real world. Its a product of proper physics, proper kinematic sequences. They just are able to create speed and have it max out where the ball sits. A still photo of what appears to be retained angle is just the obvious result, but never ever the goal.

Originally Posted by whip (Post 88605)

I am well aware that many tour players in fact drop their head, and many who do hit it far. It is part of their body related procedure which may amplify physics and reduce throwaway, but it carries a prohibitive price tag, and a compensation Must be made. Ask yourself this, do you think tiger would really lose distance if he didn't bob his head? Even if he did, His swing speed is 125 plus, would it matter if it dropped a few MPHs in exchange for a lot more fairways hit? He is a professional golfer after all, isn't it a little embarrassing hitting only half the fairways...Wouldn't a centered motion create more distance because of the efficiency of the motion? and by him not having to create compensating forces with muscular effort, the flow of speed would be less interrupted and the club head orbit less disrupted. Also I guarantee tiger could hit it further and straighter with a longer length driver and a head that does not bob or maybe a lower loft and more forward ball position. Sure maybe bobbing amplifies tigers physics, does tiger really need more power, No his stats would indicate he needs to hit it straighter. The nationwide guys consistently average longer distances off the tee than the PGA tour guys, there's a reason Why, accuracy is more Important on the big boy tour than hitting a drive 315 vs 305.

a player has a limit to hand speed, maximum controllable hand speed as jtillery pointed out, the speed is happening, flowing through this position, he is not trying to hold off, which would In effect actually slow down the whole sequence because it's not a flowing force, rather it is an intuitive result of MAJOR TALENT tiger instinctively senses how to apply a high power sequence. Is this thread only about the snap release?

The case could be made that this is what tiger has done for so long it is a personal preference that must be worked around instead of changed per se, nevertheless it is a snare. Probably just by backing it off a little bit tiger would improve his accuracy and still maintain his coveted power.

Originally Posted by whip (Post 88607)

What do you mean when you say that picture J? Snap release? Wonder if the head drop was the same, it seems more forceful than ever since he got to foley, I know his head has always dropped but it seems like ever since he got on this s&t-esque motion(pelvic thrust, ski jump twist nonsense....) the motion seems more forced, more jammed than ever. As we know In this game inches are miles.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 88608)

Are we sure Eldrick isn't being taught this? Some cats saying "that's a CP cut"....whatever that means.....

Originally Posted by whip (Post 88611)

I'm quite sure he is 12 pc, Sean foley wants tiger to squat jump twist and straighten the right arm without uncocking the left wrist, HARD, and he believes as he states in The article that low point should be four inches in front of the ball......For a driver?? You sure about that Sean? Low point will be at low point and the balls distance in relation to low point should change depending on the club not be the same for every club. The simple question is this, does the driver have Time to sufficiently precede impact and release it's long arc from THERE? this may be ideal snap release for a 7 iron but that driver has got to release sooner.

Btw the angle of this picture when referring to, well anything really is not that great, hard to tell where exactly his snap release is at

12 pc what's your reasoning behind the analysis of this static picture vs. A video from a better angle, I see the golfwrx watermark, are they going goo goo over this picture over there on golfwrx?

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 88624)

What about these? Which one is better? How come?

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe (Post 88629)

All three are exquisite :exclaim:

Originally Posted by whip (Post 88630)

What got tiger stuck to begin with, was bobbing, now its worse. I can tell you that foley is trying to get tiger to actively straighten his right arm and HARD while holding the left wrist angle. when you really actively straighten the right arm that left wrist wants to go, but tiger knows sean told him to hold that angle, the only way to do it is with tension and muscular effort. Tiger might have a shoulder injury before too long. These issues create essentially a Black Box Impact. The way foley is instructing tiger you might think he's a nicklaus guy!