TGM 8th Edition
 

To the Group: If you were in charge of writing the 8th edition, what changes would you make if any from your favorite edition (and what edition is your favorite)?

I enjoy the 6th edition, but YODA has helped us make changes to the 7th...

Great question John, I don't feel I have a deep enough understanding to talk about changes for #8, but if Mr. Kelley were still alive, there is no telling where it would be... Same foundation I would imagine...

Kevin

Kevin,

Thanks. You were mentioning that to me the other day when I noticed different wording in my #7 as your #6.

I also know form talking with other authors, that it is very common for the editor to change things without consent of the writer or use words that could be used to convey an opinion not expressed by the author.

I think that scenario would help explain why there are extra editions of any encyclopedia and why they are constantly upgraded.

I'm in the same boat but one that is sinking much much faster. Hoping I can find some chapters I can skip over. =) However, I'm afraid there won't be any. :read:

I think you would need to dig deeper into why the 7th edition was created. I think there might be many people say the 8th edition should just be a reprinting of the 6th edition, or even an earlier edition.

John,
I would suggest you spend at least one day with Yoda. Included in the instruction is an explanation and some corrections/explanations of some of the befuddlements found in the book.
I have the 7th edition of the book. I think I would like to have an earlier edition at some point, but I am very interested to see what Daryl and Patrick (Innercityteacher)will come up with.
I also wonder just a little if there is an e-book version yet. That might tip me over the cliff to a Kindle or Nook.

What's wrong with the 7th edition?

More illustrations.

7th Edition

An edition someone could pick up - read AND understand it.

I am really surprised a laymans version of the book has not been authored. This site has done it for me but not everyone knows to search the net for the answers.

A lot can be said in defense of simplifying the material in TGM. I have struggled many years while being confounded by much of the information. I still find myself struggling over many things.

But I'm also surprised at how simple things become when explained and demonstrated by a very knowledgeable instructor. I'm not sure that the written word can express as much as demonstration. But demonstration alone doesn't give you the "Why" or place emphasis where sometimes it needs to be in order for one to "put" things in perspective. So explanation and background information will be helpful.

I think that "Video Presentations" are getting better and better and I look forward to learning from "Alignment Golf II". I'm patient and I know how precise Yoda wants to be. I'm sure that enthusiasts and Instructors alike will appreciate the valuable contribution this DVD is going to make.

It may not be long before Golf Magazines begin including video presentations in their packaging or offering expanded video presentations for their On-Line publications for participating instructors. Certainly, golf stroke theorists and enthusiasts both would enjoy such an opportunity.

Your posts, drawings, and work here have been a HUGE help in that area as well Daryl. We don't say THANK YOU enough!

Kevin

Thanks Kevin. If I could give back one tenth of what I've learned from Yoda and the members of this website I would feel good about my contributions.

I would like to see pictures of players demonstrating the positions/principles and from there perhaps describe where it's going from there. Ideally, a TGM book of patterns would be awesome but I don't see that happening. In it's place... maybe a chapter on Compatible Components.

We could do that swing pattern thing right here. With videos and text by the player even. I believe we've probably got ted,jeff and lynns info somewhere.

totally agree, I understand the book has millions of patterns but I dont think a video showing what is best to mix and match is anything but good.

I know one of the best moments for my hitting pattern was in AG2 disk 3 when Lynn showed how the right shoulder moves in order to act as a launching pad to drive the right arm, it seems a simple concept but it was easier after seeing that move in detail.

I think a video or 'chart' for lack of a better word talking about what elements work with other elements would make a nice addition also.

Okay, if this is complete heresy I want to apologize right up front. I remember reading about Bobby Clampett's swing back in the 80's, but have only rediscovered it here in the past spring. I have appreciated Lynn's instructions here and everyone else's posts.

I completely agree with videos and the optimum pattern mixes. That alone would go a very long way toward making it approachable to a broader audience.

I'm going to propose a couple of more radical things -- things I might consider doing if I owned the copyrights. Again, I'm thinking what I'd do to broaden the acceptance (I'm a marketing professional, primarily product development and management, so I'm thinking about what I'd do if my company ever gave me TGM to manage and expand.)

First, I'd offer an 8th Edition that was a complete re-write of the basic book that still keeps the chapter structure and order. I would go back over all previous seven editions, but use the 1st (or Homer's best) as my basis. Like going back to the original Greek for a new translation of the New Testament.

I'd convene a council made up of the most knowledgeable scholars on TGM -- Lynn obviously, and any others. It would be like a new translation of the original text, with new pictures. I would keep the same numbering structure for continuity. This version would also contain commentary about each section (format wise, on the same page like footnotes).

Second, I'd think about offering something like a Living Translation. Keep the same numbering structure, but have it in completely contemporary language. This version may not be needed -- we wouldn't know until we complete the 8th Edition.

Third, I'd look at whether it would make sense to have a version that was not structured in the old way. A true re-structuring of the material based on what's been learned, etc. [Again, if this is heresy, please forgive me. My goal is to make this material as accessible as possible to the broadest audience.] Maybe the re-write of the 8th covers this, but maybe not.

In addition to a new book version or versions, I'd start putting a plan in place for the re-launch. We also need to look at getting more certified instructors across the nation, etc., but the post is just the book!

Sorry for the long post...I guess I could have just said 8th Edition re-written more clearly with lots more pictures, maybe a highly changed version ala a "Living Translation" and maybe a version that is completely reorganized into a different structure. All three coexist and start to have their own future editions.

I would love to see this information as broadly distributed and easily approachable as possible.

If re-write, photography and illustration costs were say $200K, add Marketing costs, say $50K?. Price and Qty. How many would need to be sold to recoup $250K?

Why bother? Homer stated you only needed to do three things - up the TSP down the TSP and learn a hinge. One could add the stationary head, a lag pressure point, adjusting our intial setup alignments based on the "D plane" science. IMHO Homer's greatest gift was the common language explaining the various concepts allowing for intelligent discussion. Imagine if Homer could have been party to internet forums like this one?

Ah, the business case as to whether we should do it...

To me, it's either a minimal thing -- basic re-write, minimal photography and illustration costs (I think we can keep it well below $200K) -- or a much larger thing where TGM message and methodologies are the core of a larger TGM "empire"...

That last is approaching it strictly as a growth business -- how would I grow it into something to support a small company. The first would be how to make money as more of a cottage industry to me at least.

I consider 200K would be a waste of time. The reality is closer to 2,000.00 per page and 400 pages. $800,000.00 plus 75K per language (with page layout changes) before printing and distribution. Two year project. Management %?.

1,000,000 copies sold, at $25.00 Retail per copy. 2 years. 12 Languages.

Anybody got an extra 3.5 Mil. First ya gotta buy the Rights.

Put all video references on the Web with a dedicated site and forum. Extra 1 mil. Seminar staff, travel expenses, bla, bla bla.

Can't get there from here, so best option is to continue to use the old photos and work on cleaning up the wording. I'm not from the publishing industry so I can't dispute the cost factors though it seems high to me.

So, accepting the high costs as a given...as you say, forget the traditional print approach.

We build it on the web with a wikipedia approach. Sections are put up and hyperlinked. Members submit pictures and videos, moderators are responsible to allow or prune, etc. To some degree, kind of like these forums! We also leverage a model used in academia -- peer review.

Hard to monetize -- probably looking at an advertising revenue stream with maybe a small annual subscription to encourage broad acceptance. Other revenue streams from DVD's, training aids, certified centers, etc. That is, assuming we are looking to make money on this versus just spread the word.

Rose Colored Glasses
 

From the movie, Dumb and Dumber:

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vid...8-289361102142



:laughing9

Ok. So your saying 3.5 mil is a deposit. I can understand that. :laughing9 I just needed the wake-up call.

Ha!

One of those, "if you want to make a small fortune with TGM, start with a large one..." kind of things?

Out of curiosity, anybody know what the rights to the book are considered to be worth?

Two points

1. Yoda sure likes his movies .....man he's good. "Frankly Brian , I dont give a damn"

2. Anyone who has ever attempted to re write Homer , even in small manner, knows how difficult it can be. You can only expand , you can not simplify, reduce. It is fully reduced to put it bluntly. Try it and see if Im wrong. And the expansion is endless. A simplified, plane language version of the book would be with out end. Upon completion there would be no ink left in the world. Ink would be worth more than oil, gold or diamonds. Al Gore would do a movie on ink and claim he knew Homer back in the 80's.

Freudian slip? "Plane" language...:)

Hah, yes. Pure Freudian. No pun intended.

The book IS very dense, very to the point. I could almost see the expansion as "chapter and verse" with expert commentary. Again, I have this sort of Biblical translation idea in my head. Like Homer's work is in King James and I'm looking for an NIV or New American Standard language version. For those really familiar, I'm thinking Life Application Bible with the verses at the top of the page and expanded commentary and diagrams at the bottom.

As said earlier, this is probably better suited to some type of wiki hyperlinking. The book itself was meant to be more reference and "look up" oriented if I understand correctly.

Just think, we'll all have our smart phones out on every shot to look up the right pattern for that particular shot!

The problem to my mind is that Homer wrote a book that no two people interpret in the same way.

In his time , he said that a GSED would be awarded to people "who can do what I do". Under those guide lines .... during, his time, the awards of GSED were more honorary in nature. A trend that continued after his death.

To my mind there is only one person who approaches being able to do what Homer could do, so to speak. Mr Lynn Blake. My apologies to people I may not be aware of that can do similar. I say this with all due respect to the many pioneers who came before Lynn. On their backs , we leaned and moved forward.

No attempt at an interpretation of Homer would be worth a grain of salt without the input of Lynn. Today we see people with their own individual interpretations of Homers words arguing with each other .........neither party square with Homers own definitions to be frank. Its a strange world , smart people , who have it all screwed up. One of Homers legacies is confusion, true. Definition is everything. If you want to rewrite Homer or discredit him even .....you'd better do it under his definition of things or .........its all meaningless.

Whenever I've said "re-write" here it's always Lynn's voice I hear in my head. I've only been able to start to grasp the book because of the words Lynn says in the DVD's and the various videos here. His explanations make sense, which in turn make the book approachable. To me, it's the framework Lynn has provided. It's like Lynn has provided the Christmas tree and now I can get all those pretty decorations out of the book cause I know where to hang them...

K but Lynn would never re write the book, I dont think. Write a different book? Maybe. If memory serves he did start one a few decades back....

Do some videos? Start an authorized instructors course of his own? I could see that happening......... and soon.

Would it dove tail with Homers work? Yes the truth always prevails...

And I do agree Monty.......Lynn opened the book up for me. If not for him Id never have purchased the darn thing. The new owners of the book had him on side at first. Something that was of great benefit to them. I do wish Lynn owned the rights. I do. But Lynn isnt just TGM and so his own brand will move forward, inextricably tied to Homer but not just Homer, no. Those who know Lynn , know different. He is like a fountain of golf knowledge .....all times, all sources. He is not standing still. No Sir. He's like a Pablo Picasso of golf. He knows no bounds, what ever moves him moves him. Still. But it had better be good. He's seen a lot of it before..........

Ditto. I was searching and TGM was just one of several approaches until I found this site and Lynn's teaching. Now, I feel like a convert!

No need to convert .....this isnt a religion or anything. By the way are you circumscribed? Im talking about the geometry of the circle here of course.

Actually, I think it IS important to "believe" to some degree (or accept the logic of the system or however you would phrase it). If you don't believe in TGM principles then next thing you know, you're off on S & T or whatever the hottest new trend is.

Same thing with me. All those posts and explanations Yoda posted on the TGM side and back before this site was opened. It was just as if he had appeared from nowhere!


I had owned the yellow book for quite a few years already, but I had just about given up on it. But Yoda made the book come alive.

Originally Posted by O.B.Left View Post
Lynn opened the book up for me.
...
In my case I would say: Lynn used his skills and knowledge (TGM and otherwise) to show me how to change my swing and turn it into something better and a swing that works for me. He didn't have to open the book for me and I'm not sure I want to use hundreds of hours to try to understand the book. I think I spend my time better making the motions I have learnt and be satisfied with that. But that's just me...

Thats what the detractors don't understand about Lynn Blake. He teaches TGM concepts in every day terms. A lot of the video we see is Lynn teaching TGM, not teaching the golf swing. Two separate ideals...

Kevin

Re-write a book?

I'm a visual and left-to-right kind of learner and I would love to see any pictures of a player, IN ACTION, demonstrating some of the TGM lingo. Mrs. K is a great first step showing the pictures but it may be time to take it to the next 'more accurate' stage.

Daryl, love your math on a new book, but unfortunately you may be showing your age ;)
This is the age of the internet and Lynn obviously has some skills in this game. Maybe this could be Lynn's premium section right here on his website. Hint hint...