Hitters
 

How many first class hitters can you mention?

Brian Gay
Kenny Perry
Stuart Appleby ?

Arnold Palmer

Sometimes it kind of jumps out at you but for some guys its less evident visually. I tape my own swing and unless I send signals to the camera or something I dont know myself what the heck Im looking at. Could be Hitting vs Swinging or a particular Release Trigger. Take a look at Lynns video where he's showing a guy Hitting vs Swinging ..........looks pretty similar doesnt it? Now he does Drag Load when Hitting I'd say. So he's Drag then Drive which makes it all the more difficult to discern.

For me anyways Hitting vs Swinging is the difference between a Right Arm Throw and a Left Wrist Throw. Either way the Right Arm is extending through the shot. In the former, Hitting its an "active" extension like throwing a ball side arm. In the latter, swinging, the arm extends in much the same manner (for me, some guys have more of a pitch elbow than I do) but the right arm extension is "passive" . Its just along for the ride so to speak as CF throws it out.

Thats how I see it anyways.

Some guys think Moe was Hitter , he did appear to "actively" extend his right arm ........there was a golfer who got to both arms straight. But I dont think he was in fact, given what he said: that he was left handed , that he pulled hard with his left side, that the right side was "just along for the ride" etc . And of course the physics of Swinging revealed itself in his tell tale Horizontal Hinging. The physics is different after all . With different vectors to the Thrust even. Which is why you shouldnt do both at the same time.

Hey OB, this is an attemp to follow a thread for a change......wow!
 

I think Both Arms Straight through and past impact ought to be highlighted more and then both hitting and swinging can be described with their goal in view, as roads to the proper finish.

The funny thing about Moe or lots of pros is that if you listen and read carefully enough (just reminding not criticizing) they use lots of terms in lots of ways without trying to be technically precise or TGM like.


Air, hi! If I may, because of the essential nature of the Pivot, which I have been very frightened of because of my artificial hip and leg shortage (yes, I misplaced one : > ), I was really trying to perfect a "Pivotless" strike. It can't be done with a longer stick. You just run out of right arm and collapse the left.

Your left hand will always "pull" because your Pivot is always initially engaged.

I tried just pulling with my left hand and arm and not trying to Pivot and it works. My shorter front leg actually gives me sort of a benefit. But that is only possible for a couple of rounds and there are difficulties. I shot an 83 and an 82 with that method and I suppose you could shoot par if you are careful. I think some pros do.

By comparison, when Pivoting using the "Marching" exercises, my Pivot really flung my club vigorously! I had backed off some of my heavier Extensor Action, but my Pivot forced me to beef it up! My left hand was really pulling and all my options were apparent as the club and Sweet Spot flowed to finish. The first "March" really throws everything to the Top and the forward "March" places a slow motion stretch on all components.

The Sequencing takes awhile to work itself out giving a person plenty of time to decide which components to use. I was pleased to simply get the ball position right, use EA, and keep my head down to watch the blurring strike. Not getting the ball position correct, cost me considerable strokes per 18, as did club selection.

YBGF

In an interview with Mark Evershed he talks about Moe as a hitter.
He also quotes Tom Tomasello, who asked him - do you want to swing like Hogan or Moe?

Lee Buck Trevino maybe?

I don't really know what I am talking about. I have never heard of Mark Evershed before today, when I stumbled over this interview where he talked about his friendship with Moe and what he had learned from Tomasello (and that Sean Foley is avoiding to tell what he has learned from Evershed). I thought he knew what he was talking about. I don't.
I realize that Yoda is the authority to listen to. I would love if he would answer all my questions, but that's probably wishful thinking and not the way it works..?

airair, I like your enthuasiasm.
This year I just learned about TGM. Had only vague idea between hitting and swinging.

I refer to old posts by Yoda as he distinguishes hitting and swinging very well.
Difficult to understand all at once, but the more i played this summer,
my questions seem to be asked and answered in older posts.

In this forum, swingers are primary pullers of the club
who use the left side as a pivot.
the clubface will square automatically as long as you trust it.
awareness of PP2 or PP4 is essential.


Hitters are like to "push" the club or more precisely the primary lever (your left arm+club)
the right arm will thrush toward the ball
squaring the clubface is a conscious effort
requires aiming point/spot with PP1 or PP3


typically,
swingers like to make a full backswing sometimes past parallel in their backswing and make a circular delivery to impact.
hitters tend to make a 3/4 backswing and use a straight line delivery to impact.

here's two players IMO that are at two ends of the spectrum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5vaa-FhL0

I have always been a natural swinger,
learning to hit adds a new life to my game.
It has been frustrating to learn to hit but well worth trying a new method.

I no longer swing all my clubs, just my woods.
mainly because my swing speed tends to be faster with swinging and I don't have to as precise. Usually I will be "swinging" to a open spot in the fairway.

I hit my irons and wedges, when I have a clear path to the flag.
I use a target line or use a aiming point few inches in front of the ball.
This was the toughest part as I had to experiment with different aiming techniques.
In swinging, the ball would simply be in the way of the club path.
but in hitting, I really had to consciously figure out what aiming point fits with my swing. It can differ for many golfers.

Interesting.
Do you use angled hinging on most of these (hitting)shots - even the short ones, or also vertical hinging (which I find difficult)?

Which player do you think is swinging and which hitting??

The Bear

One is (over)swinging. I quess hitters seldom "overhit"?

Looking through release
 

Daly loads his right forearm as a HITTER, behind the primary lever asembly. Holmes loads his right forearm as SWINGER. Daly has a punch, right elbow at side, forearm. Holmes has more of a pitch, right elbow down and in the pocket. elbow. BOTH look to have a sequenced release of 2 and 3. It is hard to see what either is doing with #1 and #4. I make Daly more of a hitter at the top with a "funny" bent wrist overswing "yank and grip" start move at the top.
Just a guess, I'm new to this stuff.

The Bear

It is a little strange that it is so difficult too see who is who. If we ask them, they can maybe say if they push or pull - or like non TGM-players/instructors who say they do both. Complicated.

http://www.golflagtips.com/hitting-vs-swinging-part-1/

I don't know if it is permitted to use other websites, but here are some videos and pictures of the difference between swinging and hitting.

Thought U might find this video as best demonstration:

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p....-Hitting.html

The Bear

I have seen it and I understand what he says, but it's actually not so easy to see the difference. What's good about the link I came with is that we can study one frame at a time in the pictures. (Click on a picture and it becomes a slide show.)

I remember a golf digest picture of vj singh when he was #1
and it showed his right hand was hardly gripping on the club at impact.
vj singh swing at that time was the epitome of a swinger not a hitter.

Has that changed since then, u mean?

Thanks Bear, in regard to airairs note about how hard it is to see a difference:

Id say Lynn's Drag Loading in Startdown when he's Hitting there. A super good way to go for sure, but its not a demonstration of 12-1-0, Drive Loading. Hence the difficulty ,perhaps, in seeing much of a difference between his swing and hit.

Its sort of like black vs white and all the shades in between. Lynn is a Master and he could show you every shade if you wanted but in that video he was showing his personal , preferred versions of hitting and swinging I think........ divided perhaps/maybe by only a difference in the Release Trigger he employed.....Left Wrist vs Right Arm Throw. Thats my take.

If you wanted 12-1 vs 12-2 he could do that too but thats not what he was demonstrating there. That would be more black vs white.

Lynn has commented on this somewhere , wish I could find the link but to the best of my recollection ......the only part of the right hand left on the handle included the #3pp. Which for us is very interesting......

Interesting in what way?

Ola O.B. Left,

I made this chart just for you.



The Hitting/Swinging video: I think that Lynn is using 10-24-B and delaying the Power Package Release until his preselected Release Point. The Right Arm Throw is Triggering the Power Package Release.

Great stuff Daryl!!!

I see you prefer the patterns of the 6th edition as well. When I can start swinging, I want to fool with the componants in the 7th edition, just to "feel" the differences.

Thanks as always!

Kevin

Hey Kev nice to hear from you I didnt realize you were still out of action...hope you're close to playing again.

Daryl thats a great chart, thanks. I know you know this but.... it not just Hitting its a particular stripped down form of Hitting outlined there......... the Drive Loading basic pattern. With a fixed (non rotating) Lag Pressure Point location at the first joint of the right index finger. Per 6-H-0 IMPERATIVES (Like yours a very nice list by the way where Homer says "you cant educate the Hands unless you know what to teach them" and then outlines the differences when doing so for Hitters and Swingers.)

Lynn I believe often Drag Loads when he's Hitting. So he's not Driving 12-1 style. Not there anyways. He Drags then Drives and has therefor Rotated his Lag Pressure Point (by virtue of the direction of his Loading only) against his Knuckle , along the top of the shaft as opposed to the Drive Loaders fixed Lag Pressure Point along the aft of the shaft.

Which would suggest a change to some of the other listed components too .......

I still believe the place to start , the pattern to master first is 12-1 (or 12-2).......thats what Lynn did. Master that then move on. Best way to master it? 12-5 with various Hinge Actions , ball positions , plane lines.