Flat left wrist
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ef9...eature=related

There is more than one way to achieve the flat left impact wrist.
Using the pivot to square it up or a rolling wrist??? Which is preferred??

geez, clearly not a Miller fan :)

He's got a point re: shaft exit (Miller's view would be a bent plane line), but keep in mind the shaft is NOT the plane unless the #3 accumulator is zero'd out. In Allenby's case, it is closer to zero'd than most.

I like Miller. I consider him the Arch typical Professional Golfer. He played great golf while on the Tour, and he knows nothing about swing mechanics. He serves as a reminder that knowledge will never completely replace hard work. :laughing9

Using the pivot to square it up or a rolling wrist??? Which is preferred??
ED & D,
Interested to hear your opinions?

Neither.

I take the path less traveled.

I maintain a Flat Left Wrist which creates a Primary Lever that I support using a Bent Right Wrist and Right Arm Flying Wedge Aligned at Right Angles to the Left Arm Flying Wedge.

This Structurally Rigid and Loaded Power Package is delivered by the Pivot to the Release Point where my Left Arm is thrown off my chest and a passive right Elbow allows that side of the Triangle Assembly to Straighten as the throwout action of Centrifugal Force pulls the Secondary Lever causing my Left Wrist to Uncock.

As my Pivot Imparts Roll, my Left Wrist remains vertical to the associated Horizontal Plane and Centrifugal Force aligns the Clubface while the Clubhead is moving simultaneously Down, Out and Forward through the Impact Interval until both arms are straight.

Then, I breathe. :)

That's just the Alignment side of the equation. Don't ask about Power. :laughing9

Lots of what was said in the video my current AI is trying to get me to do.....some great stuff in there. I like Miller for being honest on a lot of stuff unfortunately he does not know the golf swing well enough, or at least cannot put his thoughts into words, so he should not be doing it for NBC.

Hey mb

Interesting video and question thanks. Clubface is a Left Hand thing of course but didnt Homer also say somewhere, cant remember where, that Hinge Action can be accomplished via any of the Three Zones?

For full shots my guess is that using Zone 1 to do it is the best. Although in the absence of that ability you may have to resort to other means to get the Hinge Action you desire....... The Hitter for instance with his natural tendency towards Angled Hinging will have to use his Arms, Zone 2 or worse still his Left Wrist Zone 3 to roll himself some Horizontal Hinging quite possibly. A compensation or overriding of things.

So my guess is Zone 1, then 2 then 3 in order although the alignment is really a left hand deal. Vertical Hinging would require a Zone 3 intervention for anyone at anytime I guess. Intentional or otherwise. Reverse Rolling being the most unnatural of rolls.

the pivot causes the throw out for a swinger, in cases where you really have to force the roll to square up, odds are that you are compensating for something (bad alignments, off plane motion and/or rhythm)

think of it this way - in a sequenced release of a swinger, the wrist uncocks, the pivot causes the roll

compensations can be caused by a poor setup of the flying wedges (improper left hand grip and/or a right forearm setup too high/right wrist not level) - see Tiger's current move for a perfect example of steering as a result of bad alignments

No question that Allenby has a terrific pattern. He is one of the best ball strikers out there!

Can you really swing with passive arms and have any serious power?

His backswing brings to mind Kenny Perry.

I treated the Topic as humorously as possible. If I want to struggle with my Legs I'll run a Marathon.

The Right Elbow straightening without forcing the Left Wrist to Uncock is not saying that the Arms don't have serious Power. In fact, I think that the Power Package accounts for 85% or more of the Clubhead Speed in a golf swing.

Clubhead speed is increased with a longer stroke and shorter Release Interval. Pivot motion speed is converted into Pressure Point Pressure by the Power Package. In other words, Pivot Speed is converted to Clubhead Mass by the Power Package. 2 mph pivot speed increase is not much velocity but it can double the mass of the Clubhead through Pressure Point Pressure increase.

How much speed can the Pivot impart to the Clubhead? I don't know but I have a good guesstimate. A 6 MPH Pivot is 1 MPH faster than a 5 MPH Pivot.

I Think that golfers trying to increase their Pivot beyond a manageable level will waste most of that effort by reconciling misalignment's and not hitting the ball with the Sweet-spot of the club-face or not sustaining the line of compression.

I'm not saying that one way is better than another. :) Besides, we're talking about increasing Driving Distance from 280 yards to 300. That's not a very big value for the time we spend talking about it. Golf is not only about Tournament Golf. It is possible to play for fun. There are guys that play with their wives and family. Hey, and don't forget the beverage cart and the cart girl.

Drive for show, Putt for dough. :)

I don't know I think Miller DOES know quite a bit about swing stuff . . . . his videos are pretty good. I also agree that that left knee deal looks like it would hurt. Probably not something you'd tell the dude to fix at that level . . . but not many people have that kind of knee action on tour even Lehman . . . . . . but whatever . . . he's a millionaire and I'm a goat farmer. Miller had a low exit like that too . . . and a weak grip . . . and a little bit of that left knee bent deal too.

At least he says what other announcers wouldn't dare say. I really liked him as a Player. Great competitor.

I didn't know he had videos. They're probably videos of him announcing.

Hey, owning two Goats named "Bubba" and "Bubbles" does not make a Goat Farmer. You're a Breeder. :laughing9

Ya, double anchor for sure. It goes with a hip stall quite often. Then the Arms run off way ahead of the body. I guess his run inside which is what Miller is noticing. The complete opposite of Hogan, who had the hands in front of the body nicely post follow through.

Johnny can be a bit much sometimes but I think he knows a lot about golf and G.O.L.F. too. There is a story about him inquiring about endorsing TGM , reshooting the photos to feature himself. But Homer didnt have the money asked for or the inclination. Not sure how Johnny woulda looked in that wool skirt either.

His choke watch stuff drives me crazy. He tried it with Brian Gay when he was lapping the field at Harbor Town. Didnt work. I guess it keeps the viewers watching. Like waiting for a crash at a car race or something.

ummm...Doesnt CBS have Harbor Town, are you thinking of Jim Nance?

Maybe it wasnt Johnny Miller ..............I remember the choke watch being initiated by some announcer that Sunday, however briefly. My apologies if it wasnt Johnny. He is a master of it, however. Too bad he didnt call his own last victory at Pebble , that was hard to watch but an amazing feat all the same. As a player he had moments of absolute brilliance, to say the least.

This makes a lot of sense EdZ thanks. The swinger then uses his pivot Zone 1 to get the Left Hand off the Inclined Plane, the Release Swivel, is that right? Where as the Hitter will drive the Right Arm and paddle wheel the Right Hand off the Inclined Plane earlier, an overlapped Release.

I guess you have to define what Brad Faxon meant by "squaring up the face". Release Swivel or Hinge Action. Its an old common golf speak phrase but................. Horizontal Hinging is pure compression, closing with no layback, and has a lot of roll to it. Its "square" at one brief point in time only, Separation.

Thinking about this some more..........typically, the Hitter's Angled Hinging is a product of his Right Arm Thrust, Zone 2. The Swingers Horizontal a product of CF, Zone 1.

I dunno, heck I was hitting all over hells half acre yesterday. Id say you cant square the clubface....... its impossible.

There is less roll to a horizontal hinge than most might think. The easiest check is to go to the horizontal plane.

At any point in the motion from hip to hip, if you raise the club up to the horizontal plane, the toe should be straight up.

the closing motion, relative to the left shoulder hinge pin, is exactly like a closing door, and a closing door has a smooth, steady rate of closing. It may feel like a quick roll with a snap release down on the angled plane, but the hinge motion - from impact to separation - is as smoothly closing as that door.

Part of the advantage of the pivot causing the throw out and roll is that the pivot acts like the rotor that the door closes around - a smooth rate of closing. Not a swivel as hinge action.

Great post.

"Thanks EdZ. I did not know that".

Hi OH


!http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=127342824 2

I am a pure hitter now but maybe not in the strictest TGM sense because I don't (at least not yet) adhere to some of the downswing principles described in the book.

I agree with this, I would imagine part of it has to do with the backswing swivel motion, I know mine is extremely limited, I want a no roll feel of the forearms going back with the face shut from P1 to P2 (club parallel position). On the downswing not sure I can even produce a horizontal hinge given how much I fire my right arm, which is also going down and to the left.

I was reading that FLW is an imperative. Now I seen a lot of players that dont have a FLW while chipping and putting such as Ernie Els and Zach Johnson. It seems like to me they have a cup left wrist at impact for some shots of the short game.
This leads me to conclude that Homer's imperatives apply only to full swing?

There is always room for personal preference. He may simply be trying to keep his hands close and centered in the body with as little motion as possible. What may be completely within the realm of possibilities for a Pro, because of their practice, playing schedule, experience and experimentation, may be completely out of range for the typical 2 day a week player.

The Imperatives and Essentials allow you to create a 3 dimensional Impact. The Clubhead is moving down, forward and out simultaneously. Thus, you can sustain the Line of Compression while creating different Ball Flights. So, you can control where the ball is going to land.

Freezing the Left Wrist in a Bent Condition through the Impact Interval accentuates one of those dimensions more than the other two. More often than not, it's the Layman's way of executing a half-Angled and Half-Vertical Hinge. Focus on the Clubface alignment at the end of the Stroke. Is it facing more "up"?

While using a Flat Left Wrist, you can control the Clubface motion through the Ball by keeping the Flat Left Wrist perpendicular to an associated Plane. These Alignments are mostly unknown to the Pro's.

For the most part, they've spent their entire lives developing the hand-eye coordination to play with what "feels" right to each of them. It's more practical and beneficial to learn "feel" from "mechanics" rather than "feel" from "ball flight".

I know that sounds confusing, but it will become more clear as you learn more.

A good argument for abandoning all inquiry into the mechanics of the golf stroke! :laughing9

It would be a good argument if you pursue a career in "Golf Announcing". :laughing9

But what line of reasoning did you use when you took "knowledge will never completely replace hard work" in order to recommend "abandoning all inquiry"? :naughty:

Homer allowed for the equivalent of the FLW. Setup with a bent left wrist and maintain the bent left wrist through impact. Perfectly acceptable for low power - short shots and putting.

Yes,

I sometimes use it as a "go to" shot every now and then when I struggle with the swing plane. I get about the same distance but perhaps not quite as powerful trajectory. And not the sense of control as with more engaged arms & hands.

Ed could you explain why the shaft is not the plane in this instance? And if not, what references the plane?

Thanks

Dennis

Miller looks pretty much "dead nutz" (as he likes to say) on plane . . . see frames 7 and 11 . . . beautiful . . . Look at the face in 11 . . . no wonder he could hit it so straight indaday. but I'm not sure if Ed was referring to Miller's motion or Allenby's . . .

Great miller sequence. Does hit left wrist appear to bow slightly into impact?

Check the grip in frame one . . . . suuuuuuuper weak . . . no shaft lean . . . to get any lean at all=bowed/arched left wrist and rolly rolly olly. This is an interesting sequence to me . . . in his heyday befo my time but evidently he took yardages to 1/2 yard he was so good with irons. His release is pretty sweepy . . .but that face is QUIET. Looking at the down the line usually if you see a dude with his hands that low his grip is more turned. Plus this caddy view swing is a pretty lofted iron so you expect to see more shaft lean and a steeper angle of attack. If you bleed yellow and pee yellow you are a "downward" addict . . . there's now doubt down here but how many pills in the down bottle do you take. You'd expect with that "neutral" shaft at address and impact you'd be pretty consistent with your distances. Program in a whole bunch of shaft lean and don't match it through the ball your distances could be more erratic. Too much shaft lean and you're air mailing greens potentially and not enough and you maybe dealing with face pulls.

Centered Head . . . No "Pie" Backstroke
 

And, at the Top in Frame 5, there is zero "pie" (top of spine lean away from target). In fact, examining Frames 3 and 4, it is the lower spine that clearly moves away from the target. Despite all the guru encouragements to the contrary.

Go figure.

:golfcart2:

How 'bout that! 1-L-1 and you can EAT PIE instead of makin' it! Would love to hear Kostis take a leak on this swing . . . Hey Mo! Meet Ron!

"Humble Pie"

1. Standard Hip Turn
2. Right Anchor
3. Flat Left Foot

Im seeing a little bump or Slide going back........making it a "Hula Hula" not just a "Hula" procedure here. Something I believe Ted Fort employs and teaches.

The pork pie hat is a nice touch, Daryl. :laughing9

That ain't no right anchor ding dong.

10-16-A STANDARD This method involves extremes of action in both directions. That is, Right Knee straight and the Left Knee bent at the Top Position and passing through the double Knee Bend (Sit-Down Position) on the reversed condition of Left Knee straight and Right Knee bent for the Finish. This sequence produces maximum Hip slant at each end of the Stroke.


10-16-B LEFT ANCHOR The action here is identical to –A above (Standard) except that there is no straightening of the Left Knee after passing the Sit Down Position. This method holds the Hips to a flatter turn through Impact and Follow-Through.

10-16-C RIGHT ANCHOR This method is the exact reverse of –B above (LEFT ANCHOR). Here both Knees remain bent until the Sit Down Position is passed. Then the Left Knee begins to straighten. This keeps all pre-Impact motion flat. But the Follow-Through tends to rise quicker with the straightening of the Left Knee.

10-16-D DOUBLE ANCHOR Here both Knees are held at Address Position bend throughout the entire Stroke, producing a very flat Hip Turn.

Wow. No right Anchor in this pic. Standard Pivot only.

Hmmmmmmmmm.......is he Thrusting there? Arched, Hitters TOP, Sweep Release.......I dunno. I used to have those knees, darn it all.

Pics 7&8 illustrate simultaneous Release - Hitting. Pic #10 in the down the line sequence shows his Angled Hinge result.