Thoughts on Double Cocked Wrist
 

Hey ya'll,

Whenever I try to incorporate it into my total motion with my strong 2x action grip, it appears that the right wrist becomes cocked as well, enough to startle me a bit!
When would using a double cocked wrist be advisable, and:

-What are its advantages/disadvantages

-What grip would be best suited for it

-What would be the best motion or "trigger" (for lack of a better word) to initiate it?

Thanks in advance, last time I started one of these, you guys had some great insight for me, I appreciate it again:salut:

Answers are:

Never:naughty:
None:(
That grip would be best suited when you need to tie your hands together when carrying 4 bags of potatoes.:laughing9
Initiate what? :confused1

Advantages: A lot more potential clubhead speed. Most people can cock their left wrist in a vertical plane a lot more (bigger range of motion) with the left hand pre-turned on the grip. Take a 4-knuckle grip with the left hand, cock the club straight up in the air, the left wrist will not be flat, but the left arm flying wedge will still be intact. Think Fred Couples. Do the same with a Corey Pavin one-knuckle grip, and you will see that you lose some range of motion.

"If Freddy Couples had a flat left wrist at the top of his swing, Freddy wouldn't be Freddy." - Rick Smith 1993

A strong left hand grip is suitable for the double cocked positioning of the wrist. You will never see a weak left hand grip and a cupped left wrist on tour.

Disadvantage: You lose the visual equivalent of: flat left wrist = clubface.

Another disadvantage (from Johnny Miller): With a strong left hand grip, the clubface can be square to the target with varying amounts of clubshaft lean. Distance control may be more difficult. With a weak left hand grip (one knuckle / flat left wrist), the clubface will be left open if there is too much forward lean, which promotes (for accomplished players anyway) hitting the ball with the same loft every time, better for distance control.

Re:
 

Ok, Daryl,

Then without trying to ruffle the feathers of the MANY smart people on this site, why does my 6th edition say that it is a good guard against clubhead throwaway? Why does Homer mention it at all? Just to catalog another variation? Trust me, this is in no way to demean the little yellow book or incite problems, just an honest question from a curious reader.

Daryl- I guess I have always found that the more forearm and clubface rotation I could generate on the backswing, the deeper I could turn and the more on plane my right shoulder could get. Any thoughts Daryl would once again be greatly appreciated.

With your first post, I assumed that your "strong 2x action grip" was a "Strong Double Action" Grip. Because of your casual use of the term, when you said that your Right Wrist Also Cocks, I assumed that your definition of “Double Cocking” was Cocking Both Wrists. When HK used the Term “Double Cocked” in parenthesis he confirmed that he meant (Cocked and Bent). So, I assumed that your first question was “when is it advisable to cock both wrists?” and my answer was “Never”.
So, your second question, “What are its advantages/disadvantages”, I responded with “None”.
Your third question had me wondering for a moment, but I translated your question into “Midwestern Slang” and I figured you were asking “what's the best use of this Grip?”. I remember as a young boy, having to carry sacks of potatoes, and I would interlock my hands that way, so I answered “Carrying Potatoes”.
Your last question had me confused. Why would you need a Trigger for a Grip?
It’s difficult sometimes to translate street language into TGM Terminology. Perhaps if you did the Translation we could communicate more easily.

You seem a little irritated. Hmm?
But that’s no different than anyone else starting out with TGM.

After reading your response to my answers, it became clear to me that you were asking about a “Strong Double Action” Grip, “Double Left Wrist Action” and what “Triggers” or “what the best Trigger” would be.

:golfcart: :golfcart: Now that I more clearly understand your selected procedures, I can more accurately and hopefully satisfy your curiosity.

You really want to use 10-18-B, Double Left Wrist Action. You like it the Best. It's fun, and it makes you feel that you're doing something. Also, I think it's the Best procedure for a True Swinger. Its super duper sequencing of the #2 and #3 Accumulators magnifies Horizontal Hinging. So, against the Better judgment of those more knowledgeable than us, I must agree with you.

Anytime you Turn your Wrists in the Backswing (start-up Swivel) you have the choice of using a Release Swivel. The Release Swivel protects against Clubhead Throwaway. However, and this is a big one…..A Strong Double Action Grip is incompatible with 10-18-B.

A Strong Double Action Grip is for Those Who don’t want to Turn (Swivel Start-up) their Wrists during the Backstroke or use a Release Swivel. When they make Ball Contact, the Back of their Left Wrist is still Facing the Plane. They won’t swivel until after Ball Separation. You must use a Strong or Weak Single Action Grip because you want to employ a Release Swivel.

Your procedure is simply keeping your Adjusted Address Bent Left Wrist and Turning (Start-up Swivel) it to the Top of the Swing, (don’t let your right wrist bend) and then maintaining that Left Wrist Bend during the Downswing until the Release Swivel, which will both, Flatten your Left Wrist and Bend your Right Wrist and assure that you Uncock and Roll on the same Plane Line. Very Cool. (I used the word "Cool" because you're younger and it brings us closer together sharing the same slang) I learned that from Trans-generational sensitivity training. It helps me cope with gang members.

So, with 10-2-B and 10-18-B, use 10-20-E. Memorize 10-20-E
10-20-E WRIST THROW Here, the Right Hand remains palm-up to the Plane during the Uncocking of the Left Wrist to produce a Sequenced Release per 2-G and 4-D-0. Especially compatible with Swinging. See 6-H-0-F.

Lastly, don’t Cock the Right Wrist.

Read my post on "How Do You Grip The Club". http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...2919#post62919

This post should answer a lot of questions about the 10-2-B Grip and how to set it up. :)

Re:
 

Daryl and vjcapron,

Thanks for the help guys, it was great to hear some sound opinion on how to perform this wrist action. This is the best site on the internet, I am just trying to be as well-versed in TGM as possible, because it truly has made my game that much better.

And no, I was not irritated, like I said I am just a curious reader who wants to raise my game to the highest levels, and I like to ask questions, regardless of how uninformed I may sound sometimes:). I apologize if I came across that way Daryl, that was definitely not my intention.

Went and played today using the wrist throw, high soft draws using a 10-2-B grip, thanks very much Daryl

Thanks again, sustain the lag,

Laangels

I'm glad to help. Sorry I couldn't better understand your first post. :(

The Release Swivel protects against Clubhead Throwaway. However, and this is a big one…..A Strong Double Action Grip is incompatible with 10-18-B.


Could someone please explain these two statements?

May I? :)

1. The Clubhead cannot pass the Hands while using a Release Swivel. The Motion of a Release Swivel (going from Bent Left Wrist to Flat or even Arched) is the exact opposite of the motion of Throwaway (Bending the Left Wrist during the Impact Interval)

2. The Pivot "Turns" the Hands. Using 10-18-B, the swivel Startup Turns them again. A strong Double Action Grip begins with a Turned Left Hand on the Clubshaft. If you combine 10-2-D with 10-18-B, the Clubshaft goes way-off-plane.

I think you have touched on somethings here that are EXTREMELY important. However there are some items that I think are not quite correct or maybe should be further hashed out.

So let's forget about grip for a second as far as how you put your hands on the club.

1. I'm not sure how accurate people are at "aiming" the face at a target that is 150 to 250 yards away. That being said . . . people align the face in a "general" direction. Trevino had the face looking left . . . Jack had the face looking right.

2. What does shaft lean do? It makes the face vector point right AND delofts the club. It also has path implications . . . . the path vector would generally be more right allowing you to attack the inside portion of the ball. And generally the angle of attack is steeper as well. All of these have implications. Shaft lean works well for lofted clubs because you can hit the far and still hit them up because there is stil some loft there even when you cheat it with the shaft lean. However with the less lofted clubs too much lean becomes an issue as far as loft and distance go. So you want to have the CORRECT amount of lean . . . regardless of grip type. You can have a 10-2-B grip but if you set up with lotsa lean then you've effectively made it "strong". If you watch the pros . . . .generally they flight the lofted clubs low to control distance which is a shaft lean deal. So I'm not sure it's a bad thing as far as distance control goes with the short stuff anyhow.

3. People generally set up with or program into their swing a certain amount of shaft lean. If you set up with the face looking left and with some lean in the shaft, you'd better get that amount of shaft lean or the ball is going to start left of your intended line. Shaft lean is a big solid piece and it's also a big piece getting the ball to start on the intended line . . . at least if you are trying to draw it.

4. Plane Angle/handle height also is a grip deal. Generally if you have the handle lower (elbow to hands only) your grip is going to go on there pretty "strongish". If you set it up on the Turned Shoulder Plane then it will tend to be B-ish. So things get complicated when you set up for a plane angle and then have an "unintended" shift that can mess up the face vector and the rate that the face closes. . . . e.g. raise the handle up thru the ball face vector goes right but the face can rotate around the sweetspot faster too.

Somewhat complicated stuff.

Imagine you were throwing a javelin with your left arm. Notice the position of the left wrist? Bent back, but still in line with the left forearm.

That is the strongest position of the left arm flying wedge, from a power perspective (although as noted, not as easy to monitor from a geometry perspective).

It is indeed the reason Couples is so powerful.

Shaft lean can be managed, but it requires an understanding, and maintaining, of the bent right wrist angle. Couples and Daly both let that right wrist angle go on the full swing (but notice Daly in his short game, one of the reasons he is so good around the greens).

The turned left wrist is 'insurance' against throw away at the extreme (see Alex Morrison), since it is physically impossible to let the club pass the left arm with it turned so much.

Properly understood, I think a lot of people can benefit from the advantages in a turned left wrist because of this 'insurance'. See Morgan Pressel's action for a good starting pattern for many IMO.

Agreed that Miller's left hand grip is better for distance control, because the weaker left hand is a limiting factor in shaft lean - but - it requires actively 'doing' something to keep the rest of the angles in place. One of the reasons he isn't playing IMO, and one of the reasons Tiger hits wild shots with his current pattern - they are fighting the alignments of the flying wedges -

Funny you mention this because I recently experimented with raising the handle at address. Its amazing how simple tracing with the right forearm and #3 pp becomes when the left wrist is level, instead of cocked, at address. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the one we overlook. Thanks, Bucket

Never thought about that. Interesting.

Thanks EdZ

10-2-D Grip.

If the Clubhead doesn't pass the Hands before Ball-Clubhead separation, then the Law of the Flail has been complied with. However, if the left Wrist uncocks a degree from Impact to Separation (impact Interval), it is technically Throwaway. Swinging from the Wrists, Loss of the Primary Lever, Compression Leakage all proportional to the amount of Uncocking during the Interval.:( With Short Shots, they don't need to Cock the Wrists so the Procedure is acceptable. :)

Couples and Daily are great players, best in the world, but laws are laws. The Pro's break laws all of the time and mostly get away with it. It's the "Law of the Pro"; = 10 hours a day on the range for 15 years and you get really good Hand/Eye coordination.:laughing9

Thanks Daryl, but do really mean "uncocks" or do mean "bends" in regard to the left wrist? What ever it is, brother do we ever suffer from Throwaway. All of us. The Flat Left Wrist again. There should be some sort of surgery available to us. Some bolts or something. It wouldnt be too detrimental to the rest of our activities would it?

The 10-2-D Grip during release and impact has the back of the flat left wrist against the plane. No swivel or bending, only a simple karate chop of the left hand into the ball. Uncocking and Throwaway are on the same plane.

I think that if I had a lot of Railroad ties to lay and had to whack them into alignment with a sledge hammer that I would use 10-2-B. But I would still drag the Hammer.