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YodasLuke 04-05-2008 08:21 AM

great athlete, many considerations
 
7 Attachment(s)
Here's a great athlete that took a long hiatus from golf for years. He was a ski instructor, football player, baseball player, etc. I took him to a Titleist Performance Institute location and they said he had the greatest (initial) rotational shoulder speed of anyone they'd tested, including Tour players. And, he couldn't hit it out of his shadow. He was the poster child for over-acceleration.

One of the real problems with this guy was deciding on which side of the ball to put him. Years ago he'd played golf right handed, but he was only successful as a left handed batter in baseball. Right handed batting was unsuccessful. He throws right handed, writes left handed, kicks with the left foot, etc. It was apparent after a few lessons that it was going to be a tough road, because he was so comfortable batting left handed. The saving grace was that he could kill you with a baseball in his right hand. When hitting as a right handed batter, he had problems generating any speed. His Pivot didn't work well.

We had a breakthrough yesterday. We've changed too many things to count since we started. But, we were finally able to change his Start Down speed. It changed his loading and acceleration. Impact was infinitely better, and the ball was compressed.

In the pictures, I tried to synchronize his hands. Both were Total Motion, but it looks like a different person.

mrodock 04-05-2008 01:49 PM

Looks like you did one hell of a job sorting through the various considerations for your student. Have you had his swing analyzed by TPI since the changes? If so, what did you find? Also, any chance you could include photos from the rest of the swing. Might be interesting to see the entirety of the downswing.

Thanks!

Matt

drewitgolf 04-05-2008 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 51797)
I took him to a Titleist Performance Institute location and they said he had the greatest (initial) rotational shoulder speed of anyone they'd tested, including Tour players. And, he couldn't hit it out of his shadow. He was the poster child for over-acceleration.


We had a breakthrough yesterday. We've changed too many things to count since we started. But, we were finally able to change his Start Down speed. It changed his loading and acceleration.

Nice job Ted. Anything specific that help him with the "Over-Acceleration issue"?

YodasLuke 04-06-2008 08:30 AM

the hardest thing for him
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 51804)
Nice job Ted. Anything specific that help him with the "Over-Acceleration issue"?

This guy is a type AAAAAAAA personality. He's very successful in business. He usually comes flying in the gate of the range in his Porsche, on two wheels. He jumps out of the car with 30 seconds to spare before the lesson starts, ties his shoes with the phone still stuck in his ear, and grabs the clubs from the trunk. None of these things prepare him well for a slow Start Down. When he played football, his dad told him to hit the opponent as hard and fast as he could, before he was hit.

He took that same aggressive nature into golf, to no avail. So the hardest thing I ever asked him to do was to hit a Total Motion PW 20 yards. To him, it felt like it took two weeks to get to the ball. Success wasn't immediate, but he was finally able to hit it about 50 yards. In doing the drill enough times he acquired the ability to start slowly in the Start Down. Then, I had him trying to reach greater speeds AFTER Impact. When he did so, he was able to feel the heaviness of the club. It was something he had never felt. He's had a couple of practice sessions since the last lesson, and he can't believe how heavy Impact is feeling. He now has a kinesthetic understanding that acceleration is different than speed.

YodasLuke 04-06-2008 08:36 AM

no return visit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrodock (Post 51803)
Looks like you did one hell of a job sorting through the various considerations for your student. Have you had his swing analyzed by TPI since the changes? If so, what did you find? Also, any chance you could include photos from the rest of the swing. Might be interesting to see the entirety of the downswing.

Thanks!

Matt

We haven't returned to the TPI facility, yet. We wanted to fix some things.

I've been so busy this week with my regulars and those coming from different states (going to Augusta) that I've had no family time. So, if the boys nap today, I'll try to get some additional pictures posted.

mrodock 04-06-2008 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 51816)
This guy is a type AAAAAAAA personality. He's very successful in business. He usually comes flying in the gate of the range in his Porsche, on two wheels. He jumps out of the car with 30 seconds to spare before the lesson starts, ties his shoes with the phone still stuck in his ear, and grabs the clubs from the trunk. None of these things prepare him well for a slow Start Down. When he played football, his dad told him to hit the opponent as hard and fast as he could, before he was hit.

He took that same aggressive nature into golf, to no avail. So the hardest thing I ever asked him to do was to hit a Total Motion PW 20 yards. To him, it felt like it took two weeks to get to the ball. Success wasn't immediate, but he was finally able to hit it about 50 yards. In doing the drill enough times he acquired the ability to start slowly in the Start Down. Then, I had him trying to reach greater speeds AFTER Impact. When he did so, he was able to feel the heaviness of the club. It was something he had never felt. He's had a couple of practice sessions since the last lesson, and he can't believe how heavy Impact is feeling. He now has a kinesthetic understanding that acceleration is different than speed.

This is mandatory meeting for all (and it is probably many of us) that have tendencies to overaccelerate--the menace that destroys all lag and drag.

I remember a friend came back from a PGA Tour event and said he gained 30 or more yards because he started to imitate their very gradual acceleration in the beginning of the downswing and then going close to full throttle near impact.

Thanks Ted!

Matt

sfmoy 04-16-2008 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 51817)
We haven't returned to the TPI facility, yet. We wanted to fix some things.

I've been so busy this week with my regulars and those coming from different states (going to Augusta) that I've had no family time. So, if the boys nap today, I'll try to get some additional pictures posted.

those darn out of towners going to augusta - who could that have been? =) thanks for the help ted, and sorry to tie up your family time. it was great seeing you again and getting some more pointers. my brother's definitely more excited about playing, and even practicing, golf now. as i posted in the other thread, i'm thinking about coming down for the oct event. i'll see you around here, i guess!

-shao

YodasLuke 04-19-2008 10:13 PM

best yet...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sfmoy (Post 51998)
those darn out of towners going to augusta - who could that have been? =) thanks for the help ted, and sorry to tie up your family time. it was great seeing you again and getting some more pointers. my brother's definitely more excited about playing, and even practicing, golf now. as i posted in the other thread, i'm thinking about coming down for the oct event. i'll see you around here, i guess!

-shao

I hope you can come. It looks to be the best event we've done. I can't wait.

YodasLuke 02-21-2009 10:31 AM

same guy, new pics
 
I've spoken about this guy many times. He's the poster child for hard work. He's the one that's changed his max driver speed from 84 mph to 107 mph. He's recently had some irons creep over 100mph. We've updated his irons and changed the shafts to match the increased load he's placing on the shaft.

When his alignments get a little off, he returns to slower speed swings. Then, the pictures on the right are the result. The pictures on the left are from our original meeting. The pictures on the right are from yesterday.






YodasLuke 02-21-2009 10:40 AM

even the computer knows
 
It's funny how the LBG logo appeared on the second photo in each pair. Even the computer can pick out the good alignments. :laughing9

The computer didn't want to claim the pictures on the left.

KevCarter 02-21-2009 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 61441)
It's funny how the LBG logo appeared on the second photo in each pair. Even the computer can pick out the good alignments. :laughing9

The computer didn't want to claim the pictures on the left.

Great job YodasLuke. What a transformation, he is now playing G.O.L.F.!!!

Kevin

O.B.Left 02-21-2009 04:12 PM

Wow.

Nice small pulley wheel there. Is he swinging? Beautiful alignments, he looks like he's been playing for years.

ob

Richie3Jack 02-21-2009 05:47 PM

Looks really great, Ted. Sustaining the lag is a beautiful thing.

Quote:

I remember a friend came back from a PGA Tour event and said he gained 30 or more yards because he started to imitate their very gradual acceleration in the beginning of the downswing and then going close to full throttle near impact.
I remember watching a video of Moe Norman and he was saying that the fastest part of the swing should be the follow through, but most golfers play backwards and have the fastest part of the swing being their backswing.



3JACK

drewitgolf 02-21-2009 06:55 PM

The Rest of the Story ?
 
Ted,

Very nice work by both student and teacher. Structure (Extensor Action) and Impact Alignments are much improved, also Clubhead speed and more Snap than Sweep. All this from working on proper Acceleration or is there other things you worked on?

purehitter 02-21-2009 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 61439)
I've spoken about this guy many times. He's the poster child for hard work. He's the one that's changed his max driver speed from 84 mph to 107 mph. He's recently had some irons creep over 100mph. We've updated his irons and changed the shafts to match the increased load he's placing on the shaft.

When his alignments get a little off, he returns to slower speed swings. Then, the pictures on the right are the result. The pictures on the left are from our original meeting. The pictures on the right are from yesterday.






WELL DONE!!!

bambam 02-21-2009 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 61441)
It's funny how the LBG logo appeared on the second photo in each pair. Even the computer can pick out the good alignments. :laughing9

The computer didn't want to claim the pictures on the left.

Bagger and I have your back, Ted :)

YodasLuke 02-21-2009 08:47 PM

the best in the business
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bambam (Post 61453)
Bagger and I have your back, Ted :)

They say a computer will only do what the operator tells it to do. It looks like our operators are smarter than the average bears.

YodasLuke 02-21-2009 09:05 PM

18 months
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 61450)
Ted,

Very nice work by both student and teacher. Structure (Extensor Action) and Impact Alignments are much improved, also Clubhead speed and more Snap than Sweep. All this from working on proper Acceleration or is there other things you worked on?

In 18 months, I don't know if there's anything that we haven't done. You name it, and I think we've done it.

It's been really enjoyable for me to see such changes. But, there's a guy that works at our range that saw Richard hitting balls for the first time, in a long time. After a couple of choice expletives, he watched in amazement as Richard pounded a few 7 irons. He couldn't believe that Richard had come so far. He hadn't seen the gradual changes that I had seen. He saw the culmination of months of change.

okie 02-22-2009 11:49 AM

Catalyst?
 
Proof positive! Do you recall what ideas in particular spurred your student on? i.e. which concept started the ball rolling for him? Example: for me it was understanding the way the right arm bends and straightens, or is straightened. This helped me understand the flying wedges, extensor action, and the sequencing of the accumulators.

YodasLuke 02-24-2009 11:27 PM

another interesting phenomenon
 
The biggest difficulty with Richard was having his dominant arm on the front side of the club. I much prefer to have the student's dominant arm on the back of the club. So, it was difficult for him to learn to use the right arm. It's still instinctive for him to attempt to employ the left arm when going for the additional speed.

During the lesson today, we had some interesting things happen. We quickly returned to the same success with the irons that we had in the last lesson (like the previous pictures in this thread). In fact, his speed with the irons was faster when hitting the ball than it was in the practice swing. I've found this to happen many times with my own stroke. I have much faster speed when hitting a ball. I can't get the club to move as fast without a ball.

Here's the interesting part. When Richard tried to max out the driver speed, he reverted to some of his original alignments. Each of the pictures on the left are of a practice swing, where he was trying to exaggerate some of the alignments. The pictures on the right are hitting a ball, where he returned to some faults. Amazingly, his speed when hitting the ball was 107 mph, with poor alignments. So, he's gone from 84 mph to 107 mph. That alone would qualify him for an amazing change. But, even more amazing was the speed on the practice swing. It was 118 mph!!! You can get some false readings if it picks up a portion of the ball speed. But, it's impossible to get ball speed when you're not hitting a ball!

As Homer said, "Impact is not a destination." When Richard learns this (physically) and is no longer ball bound, he can find his true potential in clubhead speed. 84 mph to 107 mph is a great success story. But, I can't wait to get him from 84 mph to 118 mph, when hitting a ball. I've never seen that much change. I know it's just a practice swing. But, I'd challenge anyone to get that speed with a golf club, with or without a ball, when your starting speed was 84 mph!






Yoda 02-24-2009 11:39 PM

Flower Child
 
"You don't steer dandelions."

-- Homer Kelley

YodasLuke 02-25-2009 12:08 AM

what you said to Richard...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 61536)
"You don't steer dandelions."

-- Homer Kelley

"You can't steer air."

--Lynn Blake

He never forgot that, by the way. :)

Yoda 02-25-2009 12:47 AM

Two Men and a Mission
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 61539)

"You can't steer air."

--Lynn Blake

He never forgot that, by the way. :)

From afar over the past 18 months, I've watched Ted and Richard work their magic. Teacher and Student, each committed to a defined system of alignments, and each with a total trust of the other. What they have achieved is nothing short of amazing.

I encourage those currently engaged in the alchemy of golf instruction to re-read the second sentence above:
Student and Teacher, each committed to a defined system of alignments, and each with a total trust of the other.
Some think of the Student-Teacher relationship as a reversion to grade school: The dominant Teacher sends, and the subservient Student receives. Learning may or may not take place. That is not the way Ted Fort teaches. Instead . . .

Teacher and Student are adult equals. One with a superior knowledge of Golf Stroke Mechanics, and the other seeking to learn same. But the road to Golfing Perfection varies from student to student, and the Teacher's ability -- and willingness -- to explore those individual pathways defines his art. Those necessary efforts will be stifled if the Student does not trust -- and thus enable -- his Teacher to open and explore those pathways with him. Such Student resistance will quickly close promising doors and leave others unopened. Conversely, when the Teacher knows that his basic and exploratory efforts will be met with trust and 'can do', the fear of rejection evaporates, and the doors of opportunity open wide.

Attitude matters.

As in any quest, the treasure is seldom found straightaway. But, where two are bound together in sound principles and a search for truth, the answer always awaits.

This is what Ted and Richard have done.

Trusted Teacher and Trusted Student.

From the grandstand, I cheer.

:cheers:

YodasLuke 02-25-2009 07:59 PM

new milestone
 
Richard couldn't keep from coming for a lesson two days in a row. He hated the fact that his practice swing was so fast and his real swing was slower.

Today was another breakthrough. At the end of the lesson, he hit a ball with 114 mph of clubhead speed! (84 mph to 114 mph!)

A 36% improvement in clubhead speed is pretty good for a 52 year old.

I wish we had captured it on tape.

YodasLuke 05-26-2009 06:08 PM

New milestones
 
1 Attachment(s)
I didn't even think that this was possible when we started with the 84 mph driver:

108 mph 8 iron!

12 piece bucket 05-27-2009 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 64377)
I didn't even think that this was possible when we started with the 84 mph driver:

108 mph 8 iron!

DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How does that happen????? What was the main deal? Alignment? Physics? Speedchain? You gotta talk to us!!!

O.B.Left 05-29-2009 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 64391)
DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How does that happen????? What was the main deal? Alignment? Physics? Speedchain? You gotta talk to us!!!



Agreed. Cough it up, Luke. Was that how fast his Porche was going or his clubhead?

Right Arm Throw, Aiming Point?

YodasLuke 05-31-2009 09:26 AM

where do I start?
 
In our first lesson, he had numerous things that were giving him trouble. But, I saw some potential. He played every sport and even taught snow skiing. He was a little unusual, as his alignments were just as bad as any hacker but his strength and fitness level were off the charts. He's 52 years old, but really stays in shape. Another real problem is that he's left handed and playing golf right handed.

In his first lesson, his weight was on his toes, his hips would stall at Impact, his acceleration in Start Down was faster than humanly possible, he was over Plane, his Left Wrist would Uncock and Roll before the club reached his right thigh, his Left Wrist would Bend at Impact, his club would exit his forehead in his Finish, and his clubhead speed with a driver was 84 mph. But, other than that, he looked great. :rolleyes:

He's taken many lessons; often it would be more than one in a week. So, explaining the entire process is impossible. But, we started with Basic Motion and focused on the Left Wrist action. We've worked in all three Zones. His Pivot needed every change you could imagine. His Right Arm needed to learn how to throw, since he's left handed. He did many swings in slow motion, because he had difficulty in being slow in the Start Down. We pounded on the Impact Alignments.

I know it sounds impossible for someone to evolve from an 84 mph driver to a 108 mph 8 iron. But, I think he always had the speed. If you were able to measure his clubhead speed in Start Down in our first lesson, I'm sure it would have been 100+ mph. It wasn't doing much for him by the time it slowed at Impact.

It's amazing to see his new ability. He's capable of hitting shots that would make a professional happy. He told me about a shot that he hit, last time he played on a 215 yard par three with water front and left. It was into the wind and he hit a low trajectory 4 iron. When we started, I don't think a driver would have made it over the water.

I have the entire process on video, so I have the proof. But, Richard wishes my hard drive would crash so I'd lose his original video.

O.B.Left 05-31-2009 12:03 PM

Great stuff Luke, he must be pretty excited about his game these days.

I guess its Geometry and Physics again, no magic pill.

Right arm throw, so he's hitting despite being left handed, interesting. Im fascinated by the Throws. They seem like a missing ingredient or component in a lot of people motions.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

YodasLuke 05-31-2009 01:47 PM

Right Arm Throw
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 64561)
Great stuff Luke, he must be pretty excited about his game these days.

I guess its Geometry and Physics again, no magic pill.

Right arm throw, so he's hitting despite being left handed, interesting. Im fascinated by the Throws. They seem like a missing ingredient or component in a lot of people motions.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

I've used the Right Arm Throw with many students. But, I've found it very useful for those that are playing on the wrong side of the ball. Even if I have no intention for them to Hit in the future, I find it helpful in the development of the stroke.

Swinging doesn't mean that the trail arm gets to wither on the vine. It drives me crazy to hear teachers say to "take the right side out of it." If that worked, you'd be able to hit a ball the same distance with or without the Right Arm. :eyes: Comments like those make my job recession proof. It doesn't hurt to have people like Richard playing golf with those that he hasn't seen in a couple of years. The wow factor never hurts the referral business. And, you're right. He's so excited about his game that it's hard for him to hide it.

O.B.Left 05-31-2009 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 64566)
I've used the Right Arm Throw with many students. But, I've found it very useful for those that are playing on the wrong side of the ball. Even if I have no intention for them to Hit in the future, I find it helpful in the development of the stroke.

Swinging doesn't mean that the trail arm gets to wither on the vine. It drives me crazy to hear teachers say to "take the right side out of it." If that worked, you'd be able to hit a ball the same distance with or without the Right Arm. :eyes: Comments like those make my job recession proof. It doesn't hurt to have people like Richard playing golf with those that he hasn't seen in a couple of years. The wow factor never hurts the referral business. And, you're right. He's so excited about his game that it's hard for him to hide it.


Hall of Fame post for Hitters or Swingers. Thanks for this insight.

YodasLuke 06-02-2009 01:26 PM

And the hits just keep coming...
 
1 Attachment(s)
We had to take another picture. Richard's doing things that I can't do. His speeds are unreal, so we had to take another picture. In case you think your eyes are fooling you, it’s a 119 mph 5 iron. I wish you could hear the sound.

drewitgolf 06-02-2009 01:33 PM

Drive for Show...
 
Ted,

Was he with us at Cuscowilla?

Daryl 06-02-2009 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YodasLuke (Post 64644)
We had to take another picture. Richard's doing things that I can't do. His speeds are unreal, so we had to take another picture. In case you think your eyes are fooling you, it’s a 119 mph 5 iron. I wish you could hear the sound.

At that speed you can get that sound with silly-putty. :)

How far and How straight?

YodasLuke 06-03-2009 09:29 AM

yes sir
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 64645)
Ted,

Was he with us at Cuscowilla?

He was there. At that time, he was the one laying sod with the PW.

YodasLuke 06-03-2009 09:34 AM

long and strong
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 64645)
Ted,

Was he with us at Cuscowilla?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 64648)
At that speed you can get that sound with silly-putty. :)

How far and How straight?

The 5 iron was flying well over 200 yards and the 8 iron was flying somewhere around 170 yards. He still has the occasional OTT, pull. But, most are very straight.

YodasLuke 06-27-2009 07:00 PM

another personal best
 
1 Attachment(s)
122 mph is the fastest Richard has ever achieved with a driver. 84 mph to 122 mph is the most change that I've ever seen. He continues to amaze me.

Richie3Jack 06-27-2009 10:10 PM

With a 119 mph 5-iron, I would have to think that 122 mph with a driver is pretty much nothing. Is there something that holds him back with the driver?

PS - awesome progress!



3JACK

YodasLuke 06-28-2009 03:36 PM

mental became physical
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie3Jack (Post 65606)
With a 119 mph 5-iron, I would have to think that 122 mph with a driver is pretty much nothing. Is there something that holds him back with the driver?

PS - awesome progress!



3JACK

His 5 iron was faster than the driver for a time. His tendency was to over-accelerate. It was most evident in the driver and has been since he began with me. There's something about removing a headcover that makes the brain go to mush. :eyes:

Richie3Jack 06-28-2009 05:49 PM

I tend to snarl and grunt when I pull the headcover off. It gets funny looks from my playing partners. :golf:



3JACK


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