How do you know if you're a swinger or hitter?
 

That is my question. I swing righty and am very right side dominant. Eyes, hands, feet, etc. So does that automatically make me a hitter? Thanks.

Because your spelling is correct, I'm assuming that you have tendencies toward Swinging. :)

Hitters use phonetic spelling. :laughing9

I don't know what to make of that response. I honestly wanted an answer.

Maybe if I add more information about my game?

With the driver and fairway woods, I employed a fairly strong grip and would bend and cock both wrists to get the club to the top and then, on the downswing, would feel like I was sending my right shoulder, knee, right index finger, and sweet spot to the ball. Down and through the ball, I would not actively roll the face, rather, I strove to keep it square--a "no roll" feel.

Although this made my game with the woods pretty good, I really struggled with the irons. I think my problem was controlling low point. My iron shots would be weak, short, fades.

I experimented with a "stack and tilt" type swing, staying more centered, but using more of a swinger backstroke with a weaker grip. Instead of striving for width, the hands came inside sooner and went up the plane sooner as well, I feel. Whereas previously, I used to move the clubface along the target line until my right arm hinged fully. At that point, I would turn my shoulders and send my hands to top. I think my downstroke maintained some hitting tendencies, regardless especially with long irons, I was able to see some improved results. My wood play became different. I was playing slight draws rather than my usual straight to power fade type ball that I was used to with my old action.

I'm still lost and could use some help, please. Thanks.

You're not a hitter.

You cock both wrists. You don't try to roll through impact? But does your Clubface Roll?
Do you hinge a lever through impact? I don't know. Maybe sometimes?

You're a normal golfer.

I don't mean to be short.

The difference between a Hitter and Swinger is that a Hitter uses Muscular effort of Right Arm Thrust to push the Levers Through impact. The Swinger allows CF to do so.

Sorry, but I don't know too much of the TGM lexicon, only some.

I don't roll the clubface through impact.

I'm pretty sure I had a grip that could be described by 10-2-B.

I really feel like I was hitting, and using a lot of right arm. But, I guess I wanted to know why, if I was trying to hit, was I struggling with my iron game, and to a lesser extent, my chipping, but not my wood game or my pitching? Were some components askew?

I know I used a fairly flat shoulder and hip turn, I felt my weight was transferring to my right side on the backswing and back to the left side on the downswing, and that my head wasn't moving around too much.

Video is worth a thousand words
 

I would recommend spending some time in the "Gallery" watching the videos. They will provide some great visual information that will help make more of an impact on your learning. You can start at any one of them. The more you watch the more all this will begin to sink in and things will make more sence. Take your time and let your incubator soak it all in....you will be in for an amazing, fog lifting experience, trust me.:salut:

Swing = pulling the club

Hitting = pushing the club

that's it.

I'm fairly new to TGM but this post confuses me- I thought TGM was suppose to be difficult to understand? Are you sure you are not missing something here- or could it be that you are a Jedi Knight?

Bobbi Knight . . .

Did you push or pull the chair you tossed on the court?

I suppose it doesn't matter as long as you maintained a flat left wrist, lag pressure point and had a straight plane line.

The banter's great and all, but I still don't have any answers to my questions...

A hitter drives the club with his right arm ,hand shoulder.
A swinger pulls the handle and C/F takes over.
If your back stroke is long and reaches near parallel you are a swinger.
If it is short then you are probably a hitter.
Nick Price is a classic hitter.
Freddie Couples is a classic swinger.

Bucket summed it up perfectly. If you're pulling the club -- doesn't matter which arm you feel you're pulling with -- then you're swinging. If you're pushing the club, then you're hitting.

Here's what the book has to say about the role of the right arm.
Without posting video of your swing, it'll be hard to get answers to a lot of your questions. My other post actually had a point, in that it doesn't matter all that much if you're a hitter or a swinger yet. You can get pretty far just working on the 3 imperatives

- flat left wrist
- lag pressure point
- straight plane line

You mentioned you cock both wrists; I would recommend searching for "flying wedges" and doing a little research there for starters.

This stuff is all a lot easier with face-to-face help from a TGM pro like Lynn or Ted.

NO .

I always thought you were a girl.:queen:

Nice effort . . .

Nice Effort.......

Nice effort . . .
 

Knights in White Satin never reaching the end...

Say "Mike's a dork."

BamBam and Bagger- can you please review all 2763 posts and reduce the effective post count down to the appropriate deflated figure- I find these posts where the purpose and function is CLEARLY to merely increase overall postings and ego - APPALLING!:naughty: These kinds of actions must be stopped or it could deteriorate the entire thread - forum - website!! Ah! :happy3: That's right- basically the same thing that DG said a couple of weeks ago!
KILL THE BUCKET! KILL THE BUCKET! KILL THE BUCKET! EVERYONE! KILL THE BUCKET!

I think DG's tantrum was a reslut of some of your weak efforts . . .

Now that was funny :laughing1

Although I think you had a freudian slip - doesn't surprise me given your psychological issues. However, since we've broken off our relationship I find all the name calling very hurtful:crybaby:

That was a purposeful typo . . . stank you very much.

LIA learn who Tomasello is and use his pattern.

Hi Lia,

I would say this - do you use centrifugal force? Or do you try to drive the cluhead?

Therein might lie the answer.

Bucket, what if I'm pulling with my body and pushing (somewhat unconsiously) with my right arm about halfway down?

According to some you are just trying to get the handle in the right location . . . Do what works.

:eyes:

I guess if it was that simple then we can eliminate most of the discussion on this forum!

Would you say most people push and pull with their full swings regardless of feel?

Hard to say what most people do . . . I'd say that most people probably do. But how could you ever measure it? Even Ted who is a carnivorous Hitter has a Swinger's start down by admission I think.

Do you think the club and ball knows if you pushed it, pulled it, or did both?

I get the feeling that with this line of questioning somebody may be trying to get me to paint myself into a corner. But I don't really have no corner. I think there are certainly forces that act upon the shaft in certain directions. I don't know much about all that but I would say that the force acting on the shaft that has the sweetspot in line is different than one that ain't.

Why don't you tell me what you think? I probably would agree with you.

The ball knows everything about the clubhead (speed, angle of attack, etc.) during impact, but it has no idea how it got there.

Measure right arm activity?
Measure the forces on the club at start down?

I agree with your comment about Ted. But he really does feel like he's using his right arm and not "spinning the flywheel". Does that make him more of a Hitter than someone who do not experience these feels?

I reckon (but have no data unfortunately) a lot of tour players out there who would be classified as Swingers actually have a lot of right arm activity during their downstroke. Whether they are consious about it or not is another thing.

I'd say the shaft definitely has some sort of different loading characteristics depending on the relation of the sweetspot to it.

Do you think you can push the shaft?

2-m-4
 

"2-M-4 BODY POWER ...To clear the fog, consider Pivot Thrust as Body Power blasting the Swinger’s essentially inert Left Arm into orbit toward Impact. Or, as supplying the initial acceleration of the Hitters loaded Power Package so the Clubhead can be endowed with Pivot Speed PLUS Right Triceps Speed."

I think much is lost if the patterns are considered opposites. They are alike in many ways.

No, but you have a good start. More important- do you have fast core speed or are you strong?
Swingers live and die but the pivot throw-out of the clubhead. A Pull. A whirl of the clubhead rolling on the base line. The left hand roll of accumalator #3 (look it up) as the left wrist uncocks and sqaures along the base line- returning the turned left hand (standard wrist action- check the archives) to its impact alignment. This is what separates swingers from hitters. Hitters keep the clubface sqaure to the base line because they employ a single left wrist action where the hand has not turned itself on plane- its that frozen feel of their impact fix position. Both swingers and hitters have a right arm that straightens. A hitter's right arm straighten is the muscle power- an action. The swingers straighten left arm is a motion- not a power source, although it will feel like one since PP#3 is at the end of it. PP#3 behind the shaft is a battering ram either by the muscle source (hitter) or pivot lag (swinger).
If you want to be a Hitter, learn a hitter's pivot and drive the entire club- shaft and clubhead into the ball. Study the Geometry of the Circle (it’s in here) and power accumulators. If you have no core speed but are strong- Hit. If you are quick- Swing.

All Miked Up!
 

Nice to have you back Mike :) .

My diabetes was seriously out of control- had to get healthy. Didn't want to lose a limb. Golf was on the back burner for a while- i couldn't swing well and that was depressing. Yeah I know more info then needed but I don't think many even remember who I am, looking at the new names attached to the posts since Oct 07.

6BMike
 

You are much appreciated here, 6B. :salut:

UPP in freezing rain Ohio

Welcome back man! You've been missed.

6BMike -- A True Friend of LBG
 

Welcome back, Mike!

What's with this 'no remember' nonsense? You've been an important part of LBG since the beginning. [Actually, as I think about it, in the earliest days before the beginning!] And anyone who has been on the site any time at all (or newbies who have prowled the Archives) knows it.

I appreciate more than you know your support for this site and the work we do. That support has taken many forms, from your own passionate study of TGM (including your 1,361 posts chronicling that journey) to your photos at our Academy at Pine Needles 2004 (from which you extracted and produced my personal 'Flying Wedges' avatar) and the video work at Woodmont 2005 and the Barclays 2007.

We've been in touch by phone over the past couple of months and as recently as last week. I'm delighted to see you back to the keyboard. Keep those posts coming!

Remember . . .

Busy fingers are happy fingers!

:salut:

You are remembered and well respected. I was just wondering yesterday what had become of you. I sincerely hope you have your HgbA1C in a better place.

OK, what if you are neither quick or very strong? At 68 years old my quickness and strength aren't what they once were. I am in fair shape. Not overly over weight though I could lose a few pounds. 6'2" and 195 pounds. Don't say find some other passtime. I love the game. Took it up at 64 and love the guys I play with. One is 77 and his score is always around 85 which I should be able to do. So for me swing or hit?
Paul
PS: This is about the only place to get hit information. Every one wants to swing, stack and tilt or one plane.