Input on Book "The Final Missing Piece"
 

Mr. Lynn,
Moorejr from Huntsville, Alabama. I would like to know if you have had a chance to review the book by V.J. Trolio "The Final Missing Piece of Ben Hogan's Secret Puzzle? I would like to add this to my library as a reference. Thanks for speaking with me.

moorejr

Delayed Read
 

I have not yet read the book, moorerj, but I am looking forward to doing so. V.J. is a wonderful teacher and player, and I have no doubt that anything he writes will justify the time invested.

:read:

Thank you Mr. Lynn, I am the "rocket scientist" from Huntsville, I still plan to schedule a session with you.

Job One For Rocket Scientists: Get Off the Pad
 

Our schedules conflicted this summer, but the season's winding down, and Atlanta is just a 'hop, skip and a jump' away. So...

Give me a call, let's put it on the books, and c'mon over!

:3gears:

vj book
 

i have the book and am interested to see what lynn has to say about the secret

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2249 post 10

Now this is NOT Yodas response to the book but it is an interesting quote from Homer regarding Hogan's hip action (I understand that VJ feels that it is the hip action that is the key? is that correct ?) - Yoda quotes Homer's description of Hogan's hip action as....

"Ben Hogan's 'Flip' Of the Hips

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla

Note that this does not mean you should violently spin your hips to the finish, in fact, quite the opposite. I personally like to associate this with the feeling of tapping a flywheel, because you only need a light 'push' and it keeps spinning forever (well...almost). You don't try to turn the flywheel by guiding it with your hands.

Homer Kelley would have agreed, Leo. He came to understand 'Instant Acceleration' Hip Action and Drag Loading (10-19-C) by studying the swing of Ben Hogan. In describing Hogan's action, he used the phrase "'flip' of the hips."

This lightning quick movement Loaded the Lag and set up the Centrifugal Downstoke Sequence. But, beyond that little "flip," Homer maintained that nothing more was required of the Body other than that it continue to lead the Power Package Down Plane."

I obtained the paperback copy of the book and completed reading last night. The stills from video show the point that is identified as the missing piece. I have in the past worked on this movement but did not know when in the sequence of my swing to implement, in a manner that would provide optimal results. I have reviewed text and photos from several books on Hogan especially the ones showing the rearward view. Also the photo of Hogan beside Lynn gives a good illustration of the point that is being made (My Opinion). Thank you for your input.

moorejr

From the Archives / Hogan's Journey...And Ours
 

A description of Ben Hogan's Swing? In one word: Powerful. In another word: Accurate. In an all-inclusive third: Efficient. But...

It wasn't always that way.

At first long and loose, his Total Motion became a Darwinian case study in the Evolution of a Golf Stroke. By the end of his career, all unnecessary frills had been stripped away, and unless something had to move, it didn't. Ben Hogan sought Golfing Perfection, and in that pursuit there was only utility.

Form followed Function. Or was jettisoned. His Hands, which early on traveled to an End Top behind his Head, ultimately found their Top at Right Shoulder High and On Plane. His Lower Body, formerly dominated by extremely active Feet and Knees, became a stable Platform from which to mount the powerful assault of his Arms and Upper Body upon the Ball.

His Grip had evolved from a Turned Left Wrist and its Double Wristcock Action (Cocked and Bent) to a Vertical Left Wrist and a Single Action (Wristcock Only). In short, without the benefit of today's Swing coaches, psychologists and trainers, Ben Hogan had realized his dream: Driven by a burning desire and working only with his own God-given gifts, he had become a Golfing Machine. And in so doing, he lit the lamps along Golf's Pathway for future generations to follow.

That torch has now been passed, and the mission of Lynn Blake Golf is to continue that pursuit of Golfing Perfection. Most of all, we are dedicated to helping you find its application to your Game. Armed with our own burning desire and the practical, working knowledge of Homer Kelley's magnificent work The Golfing Machine, we boldly set forth on this uncharted journey.

Bon Voyage!

still want to know your thoughts on the missing link

Hogan
 

//////////////////////////////////////////////

I know a fellow that played the tour with Mr. Hogan. He said the sound of Hogan hitting was quite unique. He could tell it was Hogan, just by hearing the sound of the strike.

He said when Hogan would occasionally strike a shot he did not like, he would take a big, long draw on that cigarette. I don't think he had to do that very often.

He said Mr. Hogan could putt quite well cross-handed, but he would only do it in practice rounds. He could not bring himself to putt that way in tournaments.

Mr. Hogan would not talk to many people, but he said Mr. Hogan woud talk to some people that he liked. My friend, evidently, was one of these people.

Have completing reading the book (twice actually) with a small interruption to tape back together my 5 Lessons - The Modern Fundamentals of Golf. It has seen better days, got it in 1973 and well it I have books that are 2 to 3 times older but have nowhere seen the wear this book has. Guess I will have to consider breaking out a new copy.

My Opinion, it is a keeper.

The Author did an excellent job of making his point and backing it up with actual Hogan pics.

Sidenote before going on, I think just about anyone who writes a golf book could learn something from this book. On two pages he takes the time to provide a diagram and pictures with lines, to show and define terms and concepts that was used in validating his work. Having this separate and then going through the validation IMO makes this extremely easy to grasp and understand, basically at first you focus on the terms next you focus on the validation using the terms. Well Done IMO.

A while back 'Swing Like a Pro' came out, it is often said to be flawed because of the model definition. But in that work they advocated the same movement in the same time sequence. They never really gave much rationality for it, other that to do it. Many have said this was BS.

VJ has provide an easy book to read, you can skip the technical stuff as a student, provides drills and appears to have dotted all the i's and crossed all the tee's. He does provide a reference page for adjustments to the 5 Lessons. Remember this book is not a method, but about a method.

Along with this secret piece is a good job of identify the pieces of the hogan golf stroke and some good thoughts and information to apply to any golf stroke method/style.

Great Job.

Downside, it would have been, okay I am lazy, to have at the end a separate sheet for each change to the 5 lessons, this I could copy them or remove them and include them in my 5 Lessons. For me that is easy since my current version of the 5 Lesson is just about all loose leaf pages (argh).

Great Job, its a keeper.

The Missing Piece for me...
 

Afternoon with LBG Pro and the HAWK.





I found it, i tried it and i did it....Got a Longest Drive Trophy!

stud!:golf:

Front View
 

And then there was this:

Back view
 

In view of Brian picture, that should be this:

Where?
 

Where can I get a copy v.j ? :salut:

Thank you mrodock:salut:

Secret Stuff...Just Do It
 

V.J. Trolio is the Real Deal.

Player.

Teacher.

Friend.

Hogan with a smile!

My copy is on the way.

Just do it!

:3gears:

Thank you all for the input on the review. I appreciate it.

moorejr12

waiting on answer
 

o.k. you have now read the book, so what is your opinion mr. blake

Is this VJ?....note the sound of compression :)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=SM8zE1s5qf4

Missing Piece
 

I'm not Lynn but I will give you my opinion. Everyone should give it a read. Finally a new take on Hogan's motion.:happy3:

I think VJ has done an excellent job explaining Ben Hogans pivot . I also believe that he is correct in his assesment about how Hogans pivot and swing are different from the rest. It really is simple when you know what to look for. I am just suprised that I never saw it before. I am also suprised that with how may others have been studying that swing, that others did not point it out either. Great job on having the eye to spot it.

I have tried it in my own swing and had great results so far. There is no doubt that I am driving the ball considerably further when incorporating the missing piece he speaks of. I hope it can help others as well. I feel lke this missing piece finally makes it possible to start the downswing the way Hogan reccomended.

Great Book VJ!!::salut: :salut: :salut:

Yes sir.
 

That is VJ. Yes he does make a great noise when hitting the ball. I saw him not too long ago and he demonstrated the move. Great swing! :golf:

Chris

Interesting, I went back and looked at John Schlee's Maximum Golf. His words actually don't match his pictures. Starting around p64 and on, his pictures fit VJ's words pretty much 100%.

I liked the VJs book as I noted above in my review.

Great job VJ.

Basic & Acquired motions
 

Lynn,

What "powers" the Basic & Acquired motions, right forearm or pivot?

I have tried for years to get the motion down and compressing the ball without the shaft flipping. I get it about 85% but not fully dead hands feeling (drag the mop). I have been to Ben Doyle and he stated it was the pivot of the body, and axis tilt. Or as he described it ("turn the tee pot & tilt the tee pot).

What is the power source, Utley says right leg, Tomasello the straightening right arm, Ben the pivot.

Help!!

Wojo1941

Piece
 

Lynn did you get a chance to read it?

Chris

Yoda Luke and the Puzzle
 

Ted, have you read "The Final Missing Piece"? Would like your
thoughts as to the initial move to the left side as it pertains to
a hitter. I had a couple of Hitters make the move and it appeared
to improve their Hit. Seems that Hogan had some similarites such
as his GOTO shot was a punch, hands did not go past shoulder high,
shoulders through impact seemed more angular than horizontal and
Hogan felt like the downswing plane was more out. V.J. points out
that Hogans downswing was more actually down the line.
I am convinced that Hogan was a swinger but wounder if some of
Hogans initial moves could be used for a Hitter?

6bmike and the "The Final Missing Piece"
 

6bmike has an interesting post saying that the Hit pivot and
the Swing pivot are different. "My Hit pivot is as short as
my backswing, quickly to the left leg - short and sweet.
Short quick pivot - slow accelerating arms and hands."
"My Swing pivot is as long as my backswing, taking time to
unwind to let the right shoulder - crank -a long and lazy
pivot. Long pivot-rapid from the start hands and arms."

V.J.s obversations comply with the Swing Pivot where the hip
turn to the right and the lower body shift left must be co-oridinated on the backswing.

On the downswing, with Hogan set up on the left leg pivot, Hogan
said that you could not move the hips to fast. Does not sound long
and lazy. 6bmike, does this mean that you do not buy into the intiial
move that V.J. observes?

Mr. Hole-In-Da-Iron-Face,

I was waiting for you to chime in here being an authority on The Hawk. Mr. Kelley said that "Hogan was the model for Instant Hip Acceleration." I'd say based on VJ's description of Hogan's pivot . . . the two are in lock step. Hogan created his Axis Tilt on the BACKSTROKE. I think VJ did a nice job on the book.

Hogan Hips
 

Hogan felt that almost everyone moved hips too slowly. In teaching a friend he grabbed him by his belt loops on each side and moved him vioently to make his point..

In the Palm Beach home movie where Hogan demonstrates his swing in super slow motion he very clearly slows if not stops his hip rotation through the impact zone. Perhaps this is not what he actually did at full speed.

Im curious if Hogan's hip turn was a quick initial spin of the hips or a constantly powered turning of the hips through impact. Im thinking the former as his balance was second to none. His left foot quiet quiet right to the finish. What do you people think?

O.B.

Agreed
 

I agree with your observations. The "missing" piece of Hogan's method (I am guessing since I have not seen the book yet) is that his right hip moved forward toward the target in the backswing. Those of you that have the book, help me out here. :study: Happy Thanksgiving!

UPP in chilly Ohio

that's it buzzard boy . . . he submits that the hips turn AND MOVE LEFT during the back swing.

The drawings on page 75 of Five Lessons give this appearance.

In the face-on view, it appears that Hogan set up with a more pronounced angle to his right leg than the modern swingers who tend to set up with less angle and then allow the right/trail leg to move more toward vertical on the backswing.

There's a great picture in the book . . . and you can see this in the Hogan Collection DVD's too . . . that Hogan's Backfield (butt) is certainly in motion to the LEFT. This seems to be decidedly different in the swings after the wreck. He seems to create Axis Tilt on the Downstroke in the pre-wreck moves but after the wreck it seems to happen on the BACKSTROKE.

I test drove this move the other day . . . took the kids to the school park and busted some wedge shots at them while they were climbing the monkey bars. I took one kid out . . . hit the other one but not hard enough to knock him off.

For those of you that want to see what VJ has described in the book, if you have the Ben Hogan Collection (if you don't GET IT), go to the Swing Revealed 2 disc. At approximately the 1 minute 5 second mark they get at tight shot of Mr. Hogan's lower body. You can see the move.

One point that I liked about VJ's book was that Mr. Hogan was not really a "physical specimine". He was 5'7" and had NO LEGS after the wreck. He still managed to make that move on busted wheels. So it may not be as out of reach as people think it is . . . that is if you know what move to make.

Hogan Move
 

My teacher here in Ohio pivots like that, but not as pronounced as Hogan.
I have incorporated it, with positive results. The ultimate anti-sway move. There are other YouTube videos that have this move depicted. If interested, e-mail me and I will e-mail a link to you. I do not want to list the link here, as this is Lynn's site. Bagger, et al, is this OK?

UPP in too chilly to play Ohio

I ordered a copy of "Missing Piece" and look forward to reading it.

I may be off based but I think some of the above posts are not appropriate at this time.

The book is new, very new, VJ is a member here, I have not seen any reviews in the golf rags yet, etc., all of this seems that the details and the secret probably ought to be held back. Doesn't seem fair to the author IMO.

Once it has been outed in the golf rags or VJ comes in here and gives us a run down, I think we should refrain from the details.

I did post a review but was very careful not to reveal the meat of the book, cause if that is done, why buy the book. Even in golf rags when they review, they don't go into deep details, just enough to get golfers intereseted in buying it.

Just my opinion, I did enjoy the book or should I say I am enjoying as I continue to study it.

I have wonder about this too. V.J. has been very generous to LBG.

But there is also the possibility that there is much more to the book than we could discuss here and that if this is the place from which a ground swell of discussion starts it could only be to V.J.s benefit.

Perhaps an admin could ask V.J. for his opinion.