Yoda: Your Thoughts on new 12-2-0
 

Yoda,

What are your thoughts on the new 7th edition Basic Swinging Pattern (12-2-0)?

I'm most interested in the change to Roated Shoulder Turn (rather than Standard), Random Sweep Loading (rather than Snap), and Auto Sweep Release (rather than Non-Auto Sweep).

Thanks!

Let's hear yours first coolchiefrocka.

The Rotated Shoulder Turn And the 7th Edition
 

Tongzilla,

I'm pressed for time before the Barclays, so I can't respond in depth now. And I don't yet have the book for any ancillary explanation. So for now, let me say that I think the Rotated Shoulder Turn -- which was not a change in the very accurate 'bootleg' 7th Revisions and Additions -- is problematic because:

1. Its Shiftless Hip Turn (10-14-C) is incompatible with the Slide Hip Turn (10-14-B) variation now designated in the Stroke Patterns;

2. The Shiftless Hip Turn permits no weight Shift, Axis Tilt or Line Delivery Path;

3. It requires a precise Waist Bend in order to locate the Turned Shoulder Plane (and hence give Pivot support to the Power Package);

4. It conflicts with the Basic Motion Curriculum's Flat Shoulder Turn (12-5-2 #2) -- which has a problem of its own (should have been designated 10-13-D, in my opinion); and

5. Homer Kelley's view in his taped Master Classes was that the Rotated Shoulder Turn is useful in the Short Shots but not necessarily otherwise.

I would appreciate it if you would put up your own thoughts and expand on mine as you see things.

Thanks!

Hip slide
 

Doesn't hip-slide cause secondary axis tilt? I know Homer stated that the rotated-shoulder was primarily for low power and "shiftless" strokes in the 6th edition; did he changes his tune or are there other "shiftless" forces at work--only a true Jedi would know

Problems With the Rotated Shoulder Turn
 

Yes, tobell, and that's the problem: The Rotated Shoulder Turn mandates the Shiftless Hip Turn. And no Hip Slide means no Weight Shift (and low Power) and no Axis Tilt. And no Axis Tilt means no On Plane Right Shoulder in the Downstroke (unless the Waist Bend is exactly right) and, also, no possibility of any of the Straight Line Delivery Paths.

Now, a Rotated Shoulder Turn Backstroke can be replaced by an On Plane Shoulder Turn Downstroke (complete with Hip Slide, Weight Shift, Axix Tilt and Line Delivery Path). But then, it is no longer a Rotated Shoulder Turn.

Bottom line for me is that I would have to see the revision in Homer's own hand.

What would be the proper designation for a dual application Rotated Shoulder Turn Backswing/On Plane Shoulder Turn Downstroke? (10-13-A is the only dual application listed.) I would have to believe that this, if anything, is what Homer Kelley intended, but I can't imagine having an X listed in a Basic Pattern.

Nice observation ......One can have a certain style in the backstroke ...yet another "correcting" motion on the downstroke...Isn't that just awesome!!!! Latitude in Instruction!!!!

:rolleyes: I personally do not believe Homer would ever advocate rotated shouler turn (or for that matter, rotating) for the average golfer (and I still believe 12-1 and 12-2 were to address the average golfer versus to be the ultimate or uncompensated stroke).

AND....

Snap makes sense entirely to me, given (and no I dont have the book), loading action does match release, plus....snap's timing has to be dead on, else, hook or push, take your pick.

I am with Yoda.

But....that leaves a bigger question unanswered....

Uh oh..............
:rolleyes:

I am with you on this one. My reading of 6th edition 10-13-c supports this pattern.

"The downstroke may shift to On Plane for whatever Plane angle or variation is used."

It seems that just as Homer's 6th edition Standard 10-13-A has flat/backstroke and Onplane/ downstoke... rotated 10-13-C alows rotated/backand onplane/downstoke.

It then say that "downstroke use os normally confine dto the shiftless hip turn." but he has already said do what you like on the downstroke!!!

Fine by me

Very modern thinking... most people now have backstroke 90 degrees to spine. Homer changed his mind and his thoughts from 1983 are seen on every tee of every major tour event in the 21 st century!!!

Well done Homer!

Creation of angular motion....
 

Now I haven't bought the 7th edition but will when it comes on to amazon. But have had an initial thought to some of the components that ive heard placed in the swingers stroke pattern.

Lets assume that Homer means the onplane shoulder downstroke which is also written in the 6th edition rotated shoulder turn variation and ive heard that the hip action has changed to the slide variation. Now what if this is to make the backstroke comply with the generation of angular motion, the swingers pivot turning an axis to spin a flywheel ...ie chinese drum. Wouldn't this also tie in nicely with the lagging right forearm takeaway i've seen Yoda post about ...

Once a snap loading and release is learned properly why do so many think it is a "timing" issue to be done correctly?

Obviously all the loading/releases have "timing" issues until they become automatic (not non-auto).

I use snap 97% of the time (3% full sweep for certain shots) and don't have any issues with "timing."

You must have good Rhythm and aiming point and be well sequenced on the downswing. Snap isn't difficult if you have those, suffice to say it is a move that is built upon those other areas being in good shape.

Jim,
As one (you!) .....nevermind...

Snap leaves what? less time, right?
And if Bobby..nevermind...

:)