Dr. Puttahurtin'onit . . . Pivot Conforming to Delivery Lines
 

Hey Luke . . .

One thing that I found particularly enlightening and interesting about our lesson was your discussion of the pivot as related to the Delivery Lines.

I think our buddies out here in cyberspace may benefit greatly from a discussion on Cross Line Hitting Pivot disinguished to the the Swingers Flywheeling Pivot.

This was VERY important for me . . .

Thanks man!

Bucket

3rd edition?
 

If anyone has a 3rd edition, could you look up the quote about "Parallel Pivot"? It's something that was edited out, but I think that's the edition.

Ahhh hewm!!!!

6-G-0 HAND MOTION All motion is focused on driving the Hands - NOT THE CLUB - toward the BALL. This may, with habit, seem to be come reversed. But this is where and hwo a player's game "comes apart." And the cure is to return to the original primary concern - the Hands and their Clubhead Lag, Wrist Positions and "On Plane." The On Plane relationship of the Hands, Shoulder Turn, and Hip Turn causes them to feel and look (to the player) as though they were all travelling parallel with the Plane Line from Top to Finish. Having a geometrical basis, this "Parallel Pivot" is acceptable therapy for the tendency of any or all fothe three motions to lift the clubhead "Above" Plane and set up Pull Shot alignments. (see 7-13.) On Line Hand Motion can compensate for Off Line Hip and Shoulder Motion but only up to a point. Off Plane Clubhead Throwaway is even a very prevalent Putting and Chipping Fault. It amounts to an unintentional Plane Line shift and causes direction control to become vague and erratic. So- learn to hit the ball with Hand manipulation rather than Clubhead manipulation and your game is much less likely to keep falling apart.

Nice!

Bucket comes to the rescue, again
 

That's awesome Bucket. I appreciate the quote. I've been taught the relationships, but had not the text. It's nice to see the evolution of THE MAN'S thoughts, from one edition to the next. Thanks for digging it up.

Here are some other interesting ones that could add to this discussion

2-J-2 INSIDE OUT IMPACT. . .So if Impact occurs before the low point of the arc is reached it is an inside-out Impact – or hit- and the Clubhead will travel outward and downward after Impact. Though it is an “inside-out” Impact it is not an “inside-out” Stroke unless the Plane Line crosses the Line of Flight as depicted in photo 10-5-E.

When the Ball is struck at Low Point it is an "On Line" Impact. Ball Behavior does not indicate or alter the facts of Cross Line or On Line Impact. Study 7-2

2-J-3 . . .The true geometric Plane Line is the Basic Delivery Line. But it has a very useful Visual Equivalent – the curved blur of the Clubhead path during the Address Routine and again through Release and Impact, which can be executed as a Visual ARC of Approach Delivery Line per Sketch 2-C-1-#2B. Per Sketch 2-C-1-#3 the ANGLE of Approach straight line through the Impact and Low Points is its geometric equivalent. So the two procedures are always interchangeable, but the “Arc” is the most compatible with the “On Line” Swing and the “Line” with the “Cross Line Hit” (7-23) and herein they are so paired.

Based on the bold statement above, do you think a player could "cross-line" Swing?

4-D-0 RELEASE MOTIONS. . . It is mandatory that there is no break or bend in the Delivery Line direction during either half of the Release Motion. Both halves, as well as, the Release and Finish Roll (2-G), must be executed on the same Delivery Line (2-J-3) – On Line or Cross Line, but not both

7-3 STROKES BASIC . . . The “Angle of Approach” position of the Right Forearm shows the precise Cross-Line direction the Forearm must take through Impact. It, thereby, precisely locates the visual Impact Point – where the eye must direct the Pressure Point #3 – the inside-aft quadrant of the Ball. Remember, the Actual Angle of Approach of the Clubhead is determined by Ball Position (2-N) so the Cross Line position of the Right Forearm is ONLY the On Plane Forearm Thrust per 1-L-9/10/11. Even with the Pitch Basic Stroke. So the Right Forearm must leave – and precisely return to – its own Fix Position (7-8 ) “Angle of Approach” (regardless of the true Clubhead Angle of Approach) because both procedures will produce identical Clubhead Delivery Lines.

7-23 POWER PACKAGE DELIVERY PATH The three possible paths of the Hands down the Inclined Plane (10-23) are the Basic Delivery Procedures and the Delivery Line Equivalents (2-J-3) must comply with them. Per 2-F, the LINE Delivery Paths are “Cross Line” procedures and the CIRCLE Delivery Path is “On Line” in their relation to the geometric Plane Line. For a Circle “Equivalent:, the Hands sense (5-0) an flat gyroscopic circular “orbit” path from Takeaway (8-4) to The Top (8-6) AND BACK AGAIN. So the player envisions – is consciously aware of – a turning wheel RIM motion of the Hands, Clubshaft and Clubhead toward and on through the Ball. For a Line “Equivalent”, the Hands from Takeaway to The Top AND BACK AGAIN, sense the Clubshaft as a wheel SPOKE tracing a straight line extension of the selected Delivery Path. So the player envisions – is consciously aware of – a straight line wheel TRACK motion (rather than its rotation) toward and on through the Ball.

Normally, Delivery “THRUST” is “Cross Line” – Delivery “MOTION” is “On Line”. Even at Low Point, because Delivery Path Angle (direction) is ALWAYS the alternate Target Line (7-2-3) even with Circle Delivery Path (1-L-9, 1-L-10). Study 7-11 and 7-19.

Ted, my friend with oh-so-violent-impact, I think you are very much on to something with the Stroke, Elbow and Pivot conforming to the Delivery Line selected.

Go post annikan's pictures of his "swinging vs hitting" swing sequence.

You can see the obvious differences in the pivot.

Everything In Its Place
 

In 1969, after 28 years of research, Homer Kelley decided to publish his findings in book form. He organized and wrote The Golfing Machine in the format and style he had learned writing technical manuals for the U.S. Navy, but even so, he at first wasn't terribly concerned where the information appeared. In his final lecture -- delivered the day he died (February 14, 1983) to the Georgia Section PGA in Macon, Georgia -- he said that his main goal early on was simply to "get it down." His great fear was that he would not live to complete "the project" and that it would be "another 700 years" before somebody would come along who could "solve the problem." He had a strong sense that millions of golfers were looking over his shoulder saying "Don't blow it...don't blow it."

As the editions evolved, he became more and more concerned about putting each piece of information in its most logical place. And he felt the "Parallel Pivot" concept was best placed with the Pivot Component in 7-12, not in the Hand Motion discussion of 6-G-0. Also, as his thoughts crystalized on Swingers and Hitters and their respective Delivery Lines (Arc of Approach versus Angle of Approach), he wanted to differentiate the parallel motion necessary for each. Hence, he eliminated the above bolded sentences in 6-G-0 and replaced them with the following in 7-12:

"ALL motion -- Pivot and Power Package -- moves parallel to the selected Delivery Line. That is, prior to the Downstroke Turn, a Slide parallel with either the Angle of Approach or the Plane Line per 2-J-3."

Personally, I feel both quotes provide unique insights, and that is why I study all the editions, not just the 6th.

one reason among many
 

Hence, another reason that I chose to study from the walking encyclopedia, Yodisimo. :D

3rd Edition 6-G-0
 

What exactly is the "geometrical basis" of the Pivot moving parallel to the Delivery Line?

I find it intriguing that Homer refers to "Parallel Pivot" as a "therapy" (similar to the way he uses the term in the 'exaggerated inside-out Cut Shot Therapy' as a drill to cure Steering. See 3-F-7-A) because it's something that should happen anyway, and it's also hard to exaggerate.

What are the "three motions" Homer was referring to that lifts the Clubhead above Plane?

What's My Line?
 

Q: What exactly is the "geometrical basis" of the Pivot moving parallel to the Delivery Line?

A: The Inclined Plane.

Q: What are the "three motions" Homer was referring to that lifts the Clubhead above Plane?

A: Faulty Hand, Shoulder and Hip Motion.

Acorns And Oaks
 

And I have learned much from you, young Luke. Thank you for being there.

Drill
 

.................................................. .

Has anyone tried this drill on students?

It looks like it would be good for those that get outside the plane, or "over the top". Looks like it might cause those that tend to get too shallow... to get even more shallow.

Ted tried it on Bucket . . . and it worked! To me this is HUGE. I was having trouble with "roundhousing" and the shoulder going out from the top. If I just made my pivot comply to the Angle of Approach Delivery Line i.e. cross-line out to right field, then by moving my pivot PARALLEL (cross-line) my shoulder stays back and down. And my head stays stationary to boot.

Lagster you are absolutely right . . . . I think this can help A WHOLE BUNCH of people. By having people move the hands club and pivot cross-line, you can use your instincts and not go over the top.

Ted = genius.

Bucket, are you using the Angle of Approach Delivery Line as a Swinger or Hitter?

I have been using it in Hitting . . . but that is a question that I'm trying to figure out . . . is it possible to use it for Swinging? Thoughts?

The "Angle of Approach" of your right forearm is technically correct for hitting or swinging. They both work on the same plane!!!

Align left and swing to right field like Freddy. I enjoyed watching him play at Augusta. Really impressed.

Bucket, I just missed you!! had to eat all those peanut butter 'nanner sandwiches by myself.

Ted also tried this on bambam last Thursday.

Ted = genius....bambam = pivot controlled roundhouser

My roundhousing problem is rooted in my lack of understanding of where the hands/arms needed to be and habits from my old baseball swing. Ted had me hit the ball out towards the first baseman (exagerated) to help get the concept in my coconut. Once I understood where I should have been (this is an old, ingrained habit, so it took a couple days), my pivot started behaving better to comply with what my hands/arms wanted to do. The parallel hip slide concept has definately helped with this.

Dude! Hate I missed you!

Going cross-line is a bit spookie. You feel like "well that's in the right trees and look up and the rock is streakin' at the flag."

How about this for a quote . . . from the 5th Edition . . .

2-J-3 PLANE LINE EQUIVALENTS . . . So select an alternate Target Line - for the Clubhead. Some object at which your selected Delivery Line or Angle of Approach points. At which the Clubhead is to be thrown, driven, swung or whatever. The line of the Rolling Left Hand (4-D). Not just "as if" but "for real." Now you have a Clubface Line (the Target Line 2-J-1) and a Clubhead Line (the Alternate Target 2-N). So - unless the Ball is at the Low Point, they must be two separate distinct alignments but per 7-2, they must be one inseparable Feel. Also the Right Forearm presents the correct Angle of Approach and its utilization is far superior to all other procedures. So, during Address Routine and Takeaway, adjust the Clubhead Angle of Approach to appear parallel to the Right Forearm.

So wanna see the cross-line direction and how much cross-line? Look down on the ground and imagine a line PARALLEL TO YOUR ON-PLANE RIGHT FOREARM AT FIX. Whooooomp der it tis!!!! This is your Alternate Target Line per the above for the Clubhead. And per the 3rd edition . . .

6-G-0 HAND MOTION . . . The On-Plane relationship of the Hands, Shoulder Turn and Hip Turn causes them to feel and look (to the player) as though they were all travelling parallel with the Plane Line form Top to Finish. Having a geometrical basis, this "Parallel Pivot" is acceptable therapy for the tendency for any or all of these three motions to left the Clubhead "Above" Plane and set up Pull Shot alignments. ROUNDHOUSING anyone??????????

So I'm sure you heard from Daddy Hurt . . . ABANDON the 10-5-A Plane Line???? Right??? Remember? ABANDON THE DAMN THING!!!

It has been mentioned before: It can help you, presetting your hips closed, parallel to the angle of approach.
Can some of the gurus please elaborate.

I would like to know too.

Move your right foot back? ala Hogan with driver. Closed Stance? I don't know if this is the answer.

Take a swing and stop at the top. Notice where your right hip is positioned. Leaving your right hip where it is bring your hands, arms, shoulders back to address position. Your right hip is pre-set plenty of room to swing the club up and down on the proper angle of approach.

i will follow
 

Homer = genius
Lynn = genius
Ted = faithful follower of both

To Each His Own
 

Swingers could use the Angle of Approach procedure, but it is not advisable. Swinging and its Centrifugal Force Throw-Out Action naturally produces the On Line Arc of Approach. Hitting and its Muscular Thrust Drive-Out Action naturally produces the Cross-Line Angle of Approach.

Am I correct to say that the above is not the same as a Swinger using the Arc of Approach Delivery Line? Because I interpret the Arc of Approach Delivery Line procedure as one where you try to cover the Arc of Approach with the Clubhead, as opposed to Tracing the Basic Plane Line, or using the Aiming Point concept, even though the latter two procedures produce an On Line Arc of Approach Motion for the Swinger.

Indirectly Creating the Arc Of Approach
 

Right you are, Tongzilla. The Swinger is best advised to indirectly create the Clubhead's Arc of Approach by Tracing the Straight-Line Baseline of the Inclined Plane. However, the direct application is always available, i.e., consciously creating the Arc itself by monitoring the Clubhead Blur and its Arc through Impact.

Homer Kelley felt that the direct Arc of Approach procedure lacks the precision of the Straight Line Tracing. Hence, he did not recommend it (unless, of course, the player's psychological preference dictates otherwise). However, the direct approach can be useful as a teaching device where the student is dramatically under Plane through the Ball (Inside Out Stroke versus Inside Out Impact) and the Club is off its On Plane 'Up, Back and In' path after Low Point. But even that emphasis should be viewed as a temporary remedy.

Remember, your mind should be in your Hands (and their Plane Line Tracing), not in your Clubhead (and its Arc of Approach).

If you are swinging and want to try something similar to this try this drill someone told me:

use the arc of approach except bump the hips CROSS LINE instead of PARALLEL. Centrifugal force will still make you use the arc of approach however it will help you keep that right shoulder back longer and help you learn to stop roundhousing.

In this describtion it seems to me that the hips will be preset much more closed than parallel to the angle of approach. Or am I misinformed. Please Lynn or Ted, help us out here.