The One Piece Takeaway
 

Many of the games greats have held the "one piece takeaway" in very high regard - Byron Nelson and Jack Nicklaus for example.

Does this, by definition, make them hitters? No startup swivel.

Or does "one piece" really relate to the relationship of the hands and the chest - the shoulder line. Hogan maintained this relationship very well, with about as much startup swivel as you could have!

The triangle.

Percy Boomer 'spoke' of this relationship, the hands and chest, as the key difference between good players, and great players.

Ballard's view was an extension of Boomer's - 'connection' as he calls it.

I would suggest this relationship, of the hands to the chest through impact - is the fundamental root of Rhythm.

Does the right forearm pickup destroy the triangle? Or does this only matter when using accumulator #4, such that 3 barrel folks don't need to worry about it so much?

Whenever my swing gets off, I often come back to the one piece takeaway drill - hold a club about halfway down the shaft, with the grip end touching your belly - feeling the takeaway with the shoulders - hip high to hip high. Many will quickly see they need to work on their flexibility, the main reason many dismiss this move IMO.

Pivot controled hands, some may say. Not if you are monitoring your hands per 5-0!

How does this fit in with Homer's views on the importance of the triangle?

Jump Ball!
 

This is a great post, Ed. Thanks!

Now, given the several gambits Ed has put before us, in what direction will this 'lovely' go? We will see. The field is wide open!

I remember a story about Homer calling that Ballard triangle as "that silly thing."

Yes- no?

On One Piece Takeaways
 

Okay, let's start with this:

Byron Nelson -- the original Mr. One Piece -- started his Stroke from the Swinger's Classic Adjusted Address Position. In other words, his Left Wrist was Bent and his Right Wrist was Flat. As he moved away from the Ball, both Wrists retained their respective alignments well into the Backstroke. That is the 'One Piece.' Add a little flexibility of 'lag and drag' and, on video, Byron Nelson clearly evidences the 'Lagging Clubhead Takeaway' of Homer Kelley's as yet unpublished seventh edition.

The One-Piece Takeaway of Jack Nicklaus is quite different. His 'static' Forward Press moves his Hands into their Impact Fix alignments -- Flat Left and Bent Right -- and his In Line Left Arm and Club appear frozen in stone as the Club moves away from the Ball. I have personally witnessed many times the underside of his Left Wrist firm, the Wrist harden and the blood vessels bulge just prior to Start Up.

And yet, in his tape Golf My Way, he describes his own Start Up sensations of "Soft Forearms" and the move as "with all your effort, just relax" :confused: and "sort of drag the club away from the ball." In other words, a totally different look -- but very 'One Piece' -- and yet still a "Lagging Clubhead Takeaway" Feel.

And what of the Hitter's Non-Lagging Clubhead Takeaway with its Carry Back look and Feel? Surely this is One Piece also.

Classic Address Position.

Impact Address Position.

Lagging Clubhead Takeaways (Swinging / Swing Back).

Non-Lagging Clubhead Takeaways (Hitting / Carry Back).

All One Piece Takeaways.

Is there any real substance to this warhorse of golf terms?

Or does it rank right up there with "strong left side" in its abiltiy to imply much and deliver little.

Comments...

Please!

Swingers with Punch Basic
 

I don't know if there is any to this, but Fat Jack and Mr. Nelson both advocates of "one piece" employed what looks like to me a Punch Basic Swinging Stroke. Is this just coincidence?

Also, who the heck would want to take away "ONE piece?" I take away at least FOUR pieces. Somehow I bet Mr. Nicklaus took away 5 or 6 pieces. And when I'm taking up my pieces I ALWAYS do it by bending the right elbow . . . sometimes both elbows.

12 piece takeaway
 

Before Yoda got a hold of you, I saw you swing. And, I thought you had a 12 piece takeaway. (Is there a new handle in the future?) :twisted:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .

Wasn't Byron a Hitter? Or am I thinking of someone else...

IMHO, to properly answer this question, the phrase "one piece take-away" must be defined precisely. (1) Clearly, because of the complex nature of the joints etc of the human body, a "one piece take-away" is not possible! (2) The disparity in what the great swingers of golf have written about their take-away/swing is imbedded in the "feel vs reality" struggle. (3) After all is said and done, the one piece take-away is perhaps a blending of the arms/club motion & the body rotation during the initial part of the swing. (4) This blending can be accomplished & therefore felt many ways! [see (2) above] (5) I have worked with Ballard & he constantly states that the folding of the right arm in the take-away sets the left wrist/club. His folding of the right arm may just be later than in other methods, which is OK. (6) Ballard also imparts this feel statement, "right forearm & left knee takeaway". Perhaps the great teachers of the golf swing are not as far apart as one may think! (7) Perhaps it is stated best by saying the club should not be swung independent of body motion!! One follows the other, which is FELT differently by the great swingers! sky72

Byron Nelson's Swingin' Video
 

Byron Nelson was definitely a Swinger. His Stroke is wonderfully captured in the video Byron Nelson's Timeless Golf Lessons produced by HPG Video. It features Byron in his prime with both irons and woods. This isn't a collection of grainy tournament clips; instead, it is footage recorded especially for a golf instruction series that played in movie theaters at the time. The slow motion sequences are wonderful studies, and Byron himself does voice-over analysis. The video deserves a place in every golfer's collection.

Thanks for the reference. I will definately try to get a copy of that video.

Leo - you may also enjoy his book, which has a collection of very nice photos - nearly every other page is a full size photo.

Byron's First Book
 

That book is Winning Golf, 1946. It is not the much more recent (but still thirty years old!) Shape Your Swing the Modern Way, 1976. Although a worthwhile purchase, the latter does not have the photographs EdZ has referenced.

Lord Byron
 

I have often wondered why Byron Nelson's swing doesn't garner the same amount of respect as Hogan, Nicklaus, Watson etc. His alignments are as pure as pure can get. I have a book with the famous Hogan Sequence that also contains Mr. Nelson's move. I actually prefer Mr. Nelson's alignments. There is no arguing his resume either.

Was his ball striking prowess equal to that of The Hawk and Lee Buck?

I'll be happy to scan what I have and post if there are no issues . . . Martee!!!!!!

Thanks!

B

You guys know your stuff. That's one of the advantages of being 800 years old. Thanks Ed and Yoda! (the age reference was to Yoda...obviously)

I think it was Jack Nicklaus who said that he saw Byron put on the greatest exhibitions of ballstriking he had ever seen...

....Jack was watching him hit balls while doing a clinic and he said nearly every shot was dead-on perfect. Apparently, Byron later recalled the exact clinic for the same reasons: he was hittin it perfect.

Can anyone confirm that? I think it was Jack watching Byron....

Venturi Effects
 

Ken Venturi played alot of golf with both Nelson and Hogan. Venturi (who was taught by Nelson)had tremendous respect for both, but believed Nelson was the better ball striker. He believed that Hogan was the best at managing the course.

lol nice pic 12 piece....

mmmm chicken......

How many sittings would a bucket like that cover?

....

BTW....now that we're chattin about a measily one-piece takeaway maybe you can fill us in on the 12-piece takeaway...????

The rest of the story...getting caught "Red Handed"
 

Byron Nelson's 1946 book "Winning Golf" was his "primer of golf book" (his words) simple and easy to understand.

For those of you that have the book, Nelson's hands appear to be darker than you would expect. The pictures were taken at Colonial Country Club in March, shortly after Nelson had finished painting fences. Back then you couldn't get paint off your hands like you can today. Nelson decided to do the photos anyway with red paint still on his hands (only a golf geek like me would know stuff like this).

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program: the One Piece Takeaway...

Strictly my opinion: An attempt to keep all moving parts at the same RPM's, a feeling. Take the club back with the shoulders all together in one motion then let the right elbow fold to get the club to the top.

Shoulder Turn Takeaway with Single Wrist Action (no hand movement) requiring a Plane Shift(s). The shaft moves initially between the Hand and Elbow Plane before shifting to the Turned Shoulder Plane. Gives Swingers the initial appearance of loading to hit. Pivot Controlled Hands (says Jack Nicklaus, "the hands will reck the swing"):???: .

Thanks Drew, and yes only you would have that info. "Geek God".
Good thing Byron never worked at the Big Dig, he wouldn't have time to make a vide.:rolleyes:

As always . . . I took your advice and purchased Byron Nelson's Winning Golf off of e-bay. I agree with the above analysis. I'm not sure that Mr. Nelson's takeaway was a SHOULDER TURN TAKEAWAY based on a review of the pictures. It looks like the Lagging Right Forearm Takeaway to Bucket.

I'll scan and post.

Byron Nelson's Start Up
 

Great, Colonel. Our members need to see this...one of golf's all-time great Takeaways. Thanks!

Dug this out of the grave. Still a way to post 12?

Some nice film here of Lord Byron.......lagging takeaway etc.

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2...archivefootage

Better Late Than Never?
 

LOL

Well, since the original question in 2006 went partly unanswered, I'll jump in. I just was studying chapter 6 this morning and stumbled upon it.

No, using right forearm takeaway DOES NOT destroy the triangle. Per:

All the answers are there for us, sometimes it just takes us a few years to find it. :) :hello:

Kevin

I guess this is related to a one piece takeaway so its a good thread that popped up but it seems like that type of takeaway promotes an increase in the triangle, and increase in the backswing radius from address and then to the 9 oclock position, for me it tends to pull my left shoulder back and then upwards, destroying geometry.

I much prefer a motion that holds the radius tighter and can track some poor striking recently to this very flaw.

Hope that makes sense.

That makes total sense. That's exactly what has always happened to me when trying for more width.

Kevin

Width means maintaining the triangle (left arm radius) with extensor action.

It does not mean extending the triangle with extensor action.

Many who try for width, or 'low and slow' end up as you have described - incorrectly extending the triangle via the shoulder joint.