online certification
 

would like to go to classes but to busy on tour any ideas.how about an online class for us traveling stiffs

Our Way
 

Great idea, John. I personally think it has tremendous merit (at least as a substantial part of the curriculum).

But...

The only TGM certification allowed these days is through the official 'on campus' courses of The Golfing Machine, LLC. And presently, the only instructor is the owner, Joe Daniels. At some point, there may be cyber-courses, but I haven't yet heard any such rumblings.

Until then, just boot up Lynn Blake Golf after your day between the yellow ropes. Heck, make us your Home Page! We keep things hoppin' around here, everybody learns a ton and we love hearing from you.

maybe you and rob can get in his ear about doing this.it has a tremendus amount of potential.definitely reach out to more people,which means spreading the truth and also more money

Hallelujah Chorus
 

You're preachin' to the choir, John. :)

I could not agree more, guys.

I will do my part to 'get in his ear.'

;)

Horseshoe Nails and Riders
 

"For the want of a nail the shoe was lost. For the want of a shoe the horse was lost. For the want of a horse the rider was lost. For the want of a rider the battle was lost. For the want of a battle the kingdom was lost. And all for the want of a horseshoe nail."

-- Benjamin Franklin

Go for it, Brian. You in your way and me in mine. One thing is certain...

If the TGM 'kingdom' is lost, it will not be for lack of nails.

Personally,
I feel online classes have merit - but feel certification should be done by a GSED in person only.

Last February, Lynn and myself posed a bunch of idea's to Danny Elkins (former co-owner of TGM) and Joe Daniels (sole owner now). While Danny seemed more interested in the potential of the internet, Joe seemed less interested.

For myself - there is not doubt to the endless contributions the internet can make - if used correctly. Alot of the current funding coming through TGM is a direct result of the path's laid by those whom, 3 years ago, started bombarding Chuck with questions on his first site. Then it snowballed - and it's obvious today alot of knowledge can be gained (not to mention branding/marketing, etc) from the internet.

However - although one can speak about the concepts from learning online, I personally feel it is invaluable to learn in person from a competent AI, if only to ensure application is accurate.

But...the online classes certainly have merit, just not sure about true certification and John, I certainly feel your pain. Personally, I would comp tour players if only for the exposure. In fact, I would travel to them....:)

12-27-2005, 01:01 PM error out

ground work
 

Online creates a wonderful ground work for study- so much in fact that I think many that have been at this for a while (online) and have attended any "fog lifting" should be able to pass the first part of the first Level. It would only benefit Joe and therefore TGM if that first section of Level One could be taken, for a fee (say $500) and if passed then a journey to part two Level One should be taken. If failed, Joe can then require that the applicant take both parts. I think it would increase the number of AI's.

Okay gang, tell me....

1. Why do we want to increase the number of AI's if they are not going to golf instructors?

2. Why does someone who is not going to be a golf instructor want to become recognized as an AI?

3. Without practical hands on application, does it make sense that anyone should be recognized as an AI?

Obviously an online school could support the book work, but without good demonstrations and images, you can in fact walk away with the incorrect understanding of the principles and concepts.

Just wondering why and what value there is in pushing TGM certification on non-golf instructors. Without a doubt there is great value in getting golf instructors certified. Guess the money into the TGM LLC might help move things forward?!?

I second that Denny!

One of the main reason I think online certification will not be done by Mr Daniels is that it will be hard for him to justify the $2400 price tag to be certified GSEB.

I really believe that it boils down to money. There are in fact more than one on this forum who have the knowledge of a GSEB or GSEM who never attended any AI classes.

This fact alone effectively addresses the issue of "training consistency" of the curriculum. With the advance of video and audio technology, much can be accomplished in tandem with forums.

How much will I personally pay for certification online? Nothing more than $500 to take the exams and for some e-book which briefly explains the book.

If I fail the exam, I will pay a nominal fee to retake it. To make attainment more prestigious, the student cannot take the paper more than 3 times.

By opening certification up online, we will save the prospective student a boatload of cash needed for travel and accomodation as well as in school fees.

The corollary to this is that as certification becomes cheaper (but not necessarily easier to attain) and more viable, the number of instructors that will sign up should increase by a wide margin.

What this will do is to increase profits for the certifying school and increase its reach to the world with the message, that is TGM.

your right in a sense.i dont want to learn more to instruct.i make my living playing the pga tour.i want to learn more for personal knowlege.although with todays technology anything is possible.look at all the great information yoda has on his site.i know there are other tour players that would like to take classes.it is just asking to much from our families to be gone anymore than we already are.by spreading the word of the golf machine more individuals will become addicted just like the rest of us.this just means more money in the pockets of you instructors.thanks for all the great response to my thread,just trying to give you guys some food for thought.

John,

Best of luck to you! Guys how could TGM not do this? Seems like this is the exact kind of exposure that could get the little Yellow Book "mainstream." Tour players endorsement would be HUGE!

Thanks again John for your support, interest and recognition of the BEST information in golf.

Regards,

Bucket

Online
 

I have often thought it would be fun to test my knowledge. I don't plan on teaching (or playing :( )professionally, but it would still be fun and rewarding to take the exams.

Good luck on the Tour in '06 John and we hope to see you contributing on the forum in the future.

Online course
 

After going through the GSEB and GSEM classes there is no way to conduct those type of classes online. There is a demonstration requirement along with verbal and written requirements that could not happen outside of face to face interaction.
There could however be a short course and long course curriculum that could be taught over the internet to introduce the key ideas of G.O.L.F. and that is what we're getting from these sites. Taped segments like would be a great place to start.
On a side note, Brian, Chuck, Joe and Lynn have been very supportive of answering questions on-line, in person or over the phone to me over the years and they are only a click away. This is one of the great places to get your questions answered. Homer would be happy because he too 'thrived on questions!'

I'm with you. It would be cool to take the test. I wouldn't wish my teaching somebody golf even to Osama. It would be torture! When it comes to G.O.L.F. it's all about Bucket.

12-29-2005, 07:49 PM error out

Yoda's Error
 

That error had nothing to do with knowing the book. In fact, I knew the collective book (the sixth edition and its five predecessors) too well. Joe didn't have that particular 'problem': After the dust settled, he told me himself that he had never studied the earlier editions because he felt that only the latest work was relevant.

In the case of TGM, that simply is not true. Much very useful, 'connect the dots' information was left on TGM's cutting room floor as it progressed through the various editions. It is one of the reasons the book is so difficult: In the interest of brevity, many of the stepping stones in the middle of the stream have been removed.

In this instance, the discussion centered around the Closed Clubface at Fix for the longest, hardest hit Shots with Angled Hinging. We both knew (and quoted) the exact wording of the 6th edition:

"Clubface alignment is slightly 'Open' for short shots but for longer shots it must be set up more and more 'Closed.'"

The issue was interpretation of that sentence. Joe had written a post stating that the Clubface should be Closed at Fix. I responded that the 'more and more closed' -- from the Open alignment on Short Shots -- ended at Square, which was exactly what Homer himself had said in the earlier editions. I acquiesced only when I researched my personal tapes of my time with Homer and heard the words, "It must be set up Closed. The tendency to fade is still there."

I immediately wrote a post retracting the 'Square' Clubface position and explained why using an extended quote transcribed from my tapes of Homer's own words.

And that was that.

I will second Lynn's comments.

However....
(Lynn, please dont kill me)

If you set up closed...and...the clubface, even with layback, still closes...how can you set the face closed at fix?

I understand the clubhead is movin faster then the face...however, there are others that agree with me.....

(ready to kill me now?)

-Patrick

Please confirm this
 

Yoda,

Also, since the Ball always leaves perpendicular or 90 degrees from the leading edge of the Clubface at Separation, doesn't the above procedure necessarily produce a Pull shot?

Apples And Oranges
 

Closed at Fix (Impact) and Closed at Separation are two different things.

He Said What He Said
 

Unlike Horizontal and Vertical Hinging, Angled Hinging is an Uncentered motion that results in an inherent Slice tendency. This Slice tendency must be (1) compensated or (2) lived with. Assuming the latter solution is unacceptable, I can only reiterate what The Man said, "The tendency to Fade is still there," and the only compensation is a Closed Clubface at Fix.

Remember, though, the Closed Clubface compensation is necessary only on the longest, hardest hit Shots with their extended Impact Interval. Otherwise, the Ball is not on the Clubface long enough to warrant this extreme alignment.

I understand that with Angled Hinging, the Clubface becomes more and more Open (but still Closed) relative to the Delivery Line during Impact.

But...
If the Clubface is Closed (relative to the Plane Line) at Impact, then it must be more Closed (again, relative to the Plane Line) at Separation, right?

Please point out where I'm going wrong here.

Thanks!

I think online programs would be great for people like myself who may not necesarily want to be paid golf instructors, but are high school golf coaches that want to instruct our kids the best way possible. Maybe not even call us "AI's" but maybe TGM certified "coaches".